Horn Loaded Sub Recommendation

[jason str]

I see you were talking about multiple cabinets, sorry. I'm multitasking e-mail's, estimates, forum posts and PM's this morning.

Edited July 14, 2016 by jason str

[CECAA850]

Who is Josh?

[babadono]

yur Josh'n me.

[babadono]

They haven't listed any prices but they do sell flat packs which is cool.

Now we're talking. Sumtin even an idiot like me could probably handle.

Edited July 15, 2016 by babadono

[Marvel]

Build a 60" x 44" x 48" cardboard box ( if you can find enough cardboard) and see how big this really is, no way this is going to realistically fit in any interior space or fit through any doorway unless you live in a barn or maybe Mustang guy's shop.

 

Also shows an approx. price of $20k.

[Zim.]

x

[CECAA850]

 

Who is Josh?

Josh Ricci,  data-bass.com among others

 

 

 

Ahhhh, thanks.  I've seen him post over at the AVSforum.

[DrWho]

Fitzidiot? That's pretty harsh.

 

Ya, I know....it summarizes a lot of complexity.

 

Btw, the earliest Tapped Horn I know of was designed by the guys over at Electro-voice and it's called the MTL-1:

 

The MTL1 has an advantage because the "reverse" taper on the horn acts like a low pass filter which removes the high frequency content from the rear path - which in turn extends the HF response.

 

 

 

Also, I believe it was Josh Ricci who designed the Othorn and Gjallarhorn. He then designed this new MAUL to replace the Gjallarhorn. I wonder if he'll upgrade the Othorn too?

Edited July 14, 2016 by DrWho

[mustang guy]

 

Build a 60" x 44" x 48" cardboard box ( if you can find enough cardboard) and see how big this really is, no way this is going to realistically fit in any interior space or fit through any doorway unless you live in a barn or maybe Mustang guy's shop.

 

Also shows an approx. price of $20k.

 

There isn't a comparable Danley, but it't specs fall between a couple of the biggest Danley tapped horn subs. I'd say those cost every bit of $20 or more for the big 8x12". I wouldn't mind getting some one of those flat packs and DIY-ing one of the gigantic subs of those other folks. I could get rid of my 2 THT's which aren't corner loaded unfortunately, and my two KPT-684's and build 4 of those big boys and call it a day.  

[mustang guy]

 

Fitzidiot? That's pretty harsh.

 

Ya, I know....it summarizes a lot of complexity.

 

Btw, the earliest Tapped Horn I know of was designed by the guys over at Electro-voice and it's called the MTL-1:

MTL-1X-1.jpg MTL1X1.jpg

The MTL1 has an advantage because the "reverse" taper on the horn acts like a low pass filter which removes the high frequency content from the rear path - which in turn extends the HF response.

 

 

 

Also, I believe it was Josh Ricci who designed the Othorn and Gjallarhorn. He then designed this new MAUL to replace the Gjallarhorn. I wonder if he'll upgrade the Othorn too?

 

Gotcha. I figured that there was a bit more background to the nickname. 

 

Thanks for the clarification on the Orthorn and Gjaladerhorn. Thought it was lilmike. 

 

I wonder if there are going to be any measurements on the Hennessey subs. I like the looks of them, but looks mean nothing...

[CECAA850]

I wouldn't mind getting some one of those flat packs and DIY-ing one of the gigantic subs of those other folks.

 

We should talk about this when the time comes

[jason str]

Check these new subs out.

 

  http://www.hennesseysounddesign.com/sub-woofers/

 

Thought i recognized that cabinet, its another BFM forum member who changed things a bit building knockoff Tuba's.

[mustang guy]

 

Check these new subs out.

 

  http://www.hennesseysounddesign.com/sub-woofers/

 

Thought i recognized that cabinet, its another BFM forum member who changed things a bit building knockoff Tuba's.

 

I don't know if it's the T-60 you are talking about, but I prefer the rear entry for the driver on the knockoff personally. The whole back could be a door.

[jason str]

I think the snail shell type is a bit better as the driver chamber is surrounded by braces but if you look at my down firing THTLP build you can see the additional bracing i added, probably not even needed but better too much bracing than not enough.

[jason str]

 

Fitzidiot? That's pretty harsh.

 

Ya, I know....it summarizes a lot of complexity.

 

Btw, the earliest Tapped Horn I know of was designed by the guys over at Electro-voice and it's called the MTL-1:

MTL-1X-1.jpg MTL1X1.jpg

The MTL1 has an advantage because the "reverse" taper on the horn acts like a low pass filter which removes the high frequency content from the rear path - which in turn extends the HF response.

 

 

 

Also, I believe it was Josh Ricci who designed the Othorn and Gjallarhorn. He then designed this new MAUL to replace the Gjallarhorn. I wonder if he'll upgrade the Othorn too?

 

 

 

Tapped horns do not have a rear chamber hence the EV MTL-1 is not really a tapped horn.

[DrWho]

Tapped horns do not have a rear chamber hence the EV MTL-1 is not really a tapped horn.

 

"Tapping" a horn can be accomplished with several different methods. A "tapped horn" is not defined by a rigid construction method, and you even see variation throughout Danley's designs.

 

The physical action of tapping provides a means to offset the acoustic mismatch of an undersized horn mouth. This allows the horn to be longer without making the system bigger. All you're doing with a tapped horn is filling in the null that happens half an octave above the Fc of the horn. This can be accomplished with the rear wave of the driver, a port, another horn passage, or it could even be accomplished with a second driver. The method is arbitrary as long as you're matching the acoustic impedance to get rid of the reflection. It's just more elegant to use a single driver than to use multiples, and the math is simpler when using the rear wave of the driver instead of adding a coupled impedance in series with the rear wave.

 

If you pay attention to the excursion plots (or the THD profiles), you'll notice an increase in driver excursion at the frequencies where it's driving the null - and this is because the driver sees less acoustic load. However, half an octave above Fc is a better place to have that partial unloading since higher frequencies require less displacement.

 

We can add stubs all the time in the electronics world to "tap" a transmission line - but I doubt that analogy offers any more meaning. My only point is that tapping transmission lines (of all types) is an old concept that exists in older designs. There are several other examples of scoop type bass bins where the front wave is right near the mouth of the horn, and the rear wave fires through a folded horn in the rear. The MTL1 is certainly not the only example. I'm not saying the oldschool designs were great, but it was demonstration of the principal (even if they didn't do it well).

[jason str]

 

Tapped horns do not have a rear chamber hence the EV MTL-1 is not really a tapped horn.

 

"Tapping" a horn can be accomplished with several different methods. A "tapped horn" is not defined by a rigid construction method, and you even see variation throughout Danley's designs.

 

The physical action of tapping provides a means to offset the acoustic mismatch of an undersized horn mouth. This allows the horn to be longer without making the system bigger. All you're doing with a tapped horn is filling in the null that happens half an octave above the Fc of the horn. This can be accomplished with the rear wave of the driver, a port, another horn passage, or it could even be accomplished with a second driver. The method is arbitrary as long as you're matching the acoustic impedance to get rid of the reflection. It's just more elegant to use a single driver than to use multiples, and the math is simpler when using the rear wave of the driver instead of adding a coupled impedance in series with the rear wave.

 

If you pay attention to the excursion plots (or the THD profiles), you'll notice an increase in driver excursion at the frequencies where it's driving the null - and this is because the driver sees less acoustic load. However, half an octave above Fc is a better place to have that partial unloading since higher frequencies require less displacement.

 

We can add stubs all the time in the electronics world to "tap" a transmission line - but I doubt that analogy offers any more meaning. My only point is that tapping transmission lines (of all types) is an old concept that exists in older designs. There are several other examples of scoop type bass bins where the front wave is right near the mouth of the horn, and the rear wave fires through a folded horn in the rear. The MTL1 is certainly not the only example. I'm not saying the oldschool designs were great, but it was demonstration of the principal (even if they didn't do it well).

 

 

If there's a rear chamber it's not a tapped horn like i mentioned in my previous post.

 

It's the lack of the rear chamber that allows it to be smaller than a traditional horn with the same length and mouth area.

 

The very term 'tapped horn' indicates what it is.

 

Tom Danley coined the phrase 'tapped horn' because instead of feeding the rear wave of the driver into a rear chamber and from there into the horn mouth as in a rear-loaded folded horn he took a horn with no rear chamber and put a 'tap' through the horn wall to mount the driver.   

[kg4guy]

One more consideration would be the Titan-48 which is between the T-30 and the T-60.

 

 

Cheap drivers, lighter weight, and can be made portable. Size 48"x24"x24"

 

Here is the T-30 which is less efficient but tuned a bit lower:

 

 

and finally the TableTuba:

 

[kg4guy]

DBH 218 

Edited July 16, 2016 by kg4guy

[mustang guy]

DBH 218

What that doesn't show is the 153db at 100Hz that sub can reproduce. Though that is a Danley sub, it is not a tapped horn type. It is a normal pro folded horn which makes those some impressive numbers!

The sub is 45x45x22.5 and weighs 277 lbs.