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onemoretime

Klipsch Epic CF-2 - underwhelming?

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I would have to say that in both of my Epic CF-2 pairs, the bass is anything but weak.

 

Ha!  I knew someone would call me on this!  :D  I didn't explain properly, that's my fault.

 

The DESCRIPTION of the sound is that the mid-range is too "hot" and not necessarily the bass is too weak.  I like the kind of bass I get with the CF-4 when major league power is applied.  At lower SP levels the woofers don't come alive.

 

Some CF-4 owners are thrilled with the sound when bi-amping with big power amps to route more power to the dual woofers.  In my world that is more of a "characteristic sound" than a problem.  :rolleyes:

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Strange....my CF-3 v1's had plenty of bass at any volume level.

 

I had the opposite problem that you are describing. The midrange was weak and distant. Lower treble was definitely prominent(and a bit harsh). I can imagine this is the reason people dampen these horns.

 

But compared to the more realistic sounding KLF, the vocals and midrange were distant. I felt that it was more of an "American Curve" type of speaker, mostly highs and lows. I was, however, especially pleased with the low-level detail reproduction. Those mammoth horns are definitely great at that!

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I had the opposite problem that you are describing. The midrange was weak and distant. Lower treble was definitely prominent(and a bit harsh). I can imagine this is the reason people dampen these horns.

 

Jeez!  We could be the Klipsch equivalent of the classic parable of ten blind men describing an elephant! 

 

Can any two of us agree on what the heck our CF series speakers really sound like?  :P

 

Or was that the parable of ten men describing a blind elephant?  :unsure:

Edited by wvu80
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Having the opportunity to AB what I though was a fair fight, I threw the two pugilist  KLF30 and CF4 into the boxing ring....What a fight it was. 

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Having the opportunity to AB what I though was a fair fight, I threw the two pugilist  KLF30 and CF4 into the boxing ring....What a fight it was.

Go on..

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As well, I have seen a few Epics up for sale from time to time with replacement drivers in them that were not originals to its design.  That could cause some sound issues.   :unsure:   

I'm hoping that isn't the case. They look like the right design and there's no obvious evidence of these being replacements.

 

Will have to see when they're opened up.

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It all starts with the source and amplification. The Epics are very source sensitive.. A recap might not be a bad road to go also. I am betting the electrolytics are bad in the xovers... The CF-2's were the first Klipsch experience i had and i was blown away, i now have the 1st version CF-4's and will be aquiring a pair of the CF-2's at the end of this month, i am planning on recapping right away.

Edited by marems
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I've owned my CF-2's since new in 1996. Powered by Kenwood amp 125w per channel at .03 THD. Frequency response is great but the lean toward the high side. Bass is crisp and clear. They sound much better in a big room separated at least 30' apart facing each other. With both speakers directly in front of you they sound busy but give them room to breath and they come alive. 

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On 7/3/2016 at 4:18 PM, onemoretime said:

I have no issues with the horn whatsoever, it's the mids and bass which are my problem. Definitely will check out with a tech to see if it's this pair.

The horn too hot relative to the woofers could lead to deficiencies in the sound of the mids/bass

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On 7/4/2016 at 10:56 PM, mattSER said:

Go on..

Missed this..

 

They were both excellent speakers. The bass was crisp from both. The CF4 did have a more airy / natural free flowing sound from the mids. When A/B them, the KLF30 tweeter added a crispness to highs, such as tambourines, that the CF didn't have. 

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On 12/6/2016 at 7:16 PM, Dkfan9 said:

The horn too hot relative to the woofers could lead to deficiencies in the sound of the mids/bass

Actually in the end it turns out there was an issue in cabinet design, according to a Klipsch repair tech I know. My recollection is that Klipsch made made adjustments to the CF-1 and CF-2 cabinets on later releases, but the earlier runs still have that cabinet issue.

I got a quote for modifying the cabinets to better work with the drivers, but in the end decided to sell them and set my sights a little higher. Not long after found a pair of Cornwalls with blown woofers and had the same speaker tech replace them with factory-spec cones. Best decision I made re: speakers.

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On December 17, 2016 at 1:37 PM, onemoretime said:

Actually in the end it turns out there was an issue in cabinet design, according to a Klipsch repair tech I know. My recollection is that Klipsch made made adjustments to the CF-1 and CF-2 cabinets on later releases, but the earlier runs still have that cabinet issue.

I got a quote for modifying the cabinets to better work with the drivers, but in the end decided to sell them and set my sights a little higher. Not long after found a pair of Cornwalls with blown woofers and had the same speaker tech replace them with factory-spec cones. Best decision I made re: speakers.

Curious as to what design changes klipsch might have made. I own a pair of CF-2's and just had them all apart for xo rebuild. Not a lot going on inside the cabinet. It's fairly open with a little foam behind each of the drivers and horn. 

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51 minutes ago, Harleywood said:

Curious as to what design changes klipsch might have made. I own a pair of CF-2's and just had them all apart for xo rebuild. Not a lot going on inside the cabinet. It's fairly open with a little foam behind each of the drivers and horn. 

That's interesting.  I've seen very little feedback on this forum for the CF-1/2.  The larger CF-3/4 has a lot more info available.

 

The CF-4 has two 3/4" foam sheets placed just the way you described.  I had GREAT results taking the sheets out of the bottom and using maybe a pound of polyfill around the bottom.  IMO it had the effect of making the speakers more accurate instead of being just a little nasal.

 

It looks like the port is blocked but that is just the effect of the camera and flash.  The 5.5" long ports can flow freely.

 

CF-4 mid IMG_3738.JPG

IMG_4338.JPG

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On 12/21/2016 at 2:12 PM, Harleywood said:

Curious as to what design changes klipsch might have made. I own a pair of CF-2's and just had them all apart for xo rebuild. Not a lot going on inside the cabinet. It's fairly open with a little foam behind each of the drivers and horn. 

You'd have to ask Klipsch engineers for that one. My understanding is that it's something to do with cabinet dimensions.

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On December 21, 2016 at 5:02 PM, wvu80 said:

That's interesting.  I've seen very little feedback on this forum for the CF-1/2.  The larger CF-3/4 has a lot more info available.

 

The CF-4 has two 3/4" foam sheets placed just the way you described.  I had GREAT results taking the sheets out of the bottom and using maybe a pound of polyfill around the bottom.  IMO it had the effect of making the speakers more accurate instead of being just a little nasal.

 

It looks like the port is blocked but that is just the effect of the camera and flash.  The 5.5" long ports can flow freely.

 

CF-4 mid IMG_3738.JPG

IMG_4338.JPG

 

Since the diaphragm is sealed on the horn I wondet if adding poly fill behind it would have any affect. Guess I'll need to pick some up and experiment. 

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Not that this thread is alive any longer...but...I have learned a few things about the Epic line over the past 21 years of having owned them.

 

If you still have them get them off the ground - at least 8" or more for a CF-2.  If you can get them out of a corner that helps as well.  There are so many other things that impact sound that it might not be the speaker but where it is located.  

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On 1/15/2017 at 8:36 AM, sabeous said:

Not that this thread is alive any longer...but...I have learned a few things about the Epic line over the past 21 years of having owned them.

 

If you still have them get them off the ground - at least 8" or more for a CF-2.  If you can get them out of a corner that helps as well.  There are so many other things that impact sound that it might not be the speaker but where it is located.  

Would you qualify that statement, depending on when manufactured? I understand first-run CF-2s were built differently...

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On 1/15/2017 at 11:36 AM, sabeous said:

Not that this thread is alive any longer...but...I have learned a few things about the Epic line over the past 21 years of having owned them.

 

Thanks to you, the thread is now alive!  B)

 

I enjoy my CF-4's every day and generally like hearing about all things Epic.

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On 1/17/2017 at 0:10 PM, wvu80 said:

 

Thanks to you, the thread is now alive!  B)

 

I enjoy my CF-4's every day and generally like hearing about all things Epic.

Well then in that case I'll share my setup, CF-4's version 1, Integra DTR 60.6 receiver (used as preamp and to run the surround back speakers only) two Bryston 8B-ST amps (one bridged to 2 channel for 400 watts to the CF-4's, and the second has 2 channels bridged to power the KV-4 center channel, and the remaining 2 channels powering the surround left and right speakers.

 

The epics were always good, but I felt they were always missing something. Once I got the new Integra they sounded really good, and when I hooked them up to the Bryston they sounded like totally different speakers. Plus I've spent probably 20 hours total with placement which is key. These things image like no other. I bought some RP-280f's and used them for several months but went back to my epics. For music they're awesome, which is my main focus. So placement and power were the biggest factors for mine. Plus now I mainly listen to vinyl and added a Budgie phono preamp and it's all I'd ever need, unless I find some khorns or la scala's that catch my eye, but for now I'm sticking with this setup. I've had these epics since 2000 and they've gone through many receivers and many listening rooms but this setup is by far the best. 

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