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Klipsch Epic CF-2 - underwhelming?

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9 minutes ago, boricua2480 said:

Well then in that case I'll share my setup, CF-4's version 1, Integra DTR 60.6 receiver (used as preamp and to run the surround back speakers only) two Bryston 8B-ST amps (one bridged to 2 channel for 400 watts to the CF-4's, and the second has 2 channels bridged to power the KV-4 center channel, and the remaining 2 channels powering the surround left and right speakers.

 

The epics were always good, but I felt they were always missing something. Once I got the new Integra they sounded really good, and when I hooked them up to the Bryston they sounded like totally different speakers. Plus I've spent probably 20 hours total with placement which is key. These things image like no other. I bought some RP-280f's and used them for several months but went back to my epics. For music they're awesome, which is my main focus. So placement and power were the biggest factors for mine. Plus now I mainly listen to vinyl and added a Budgie phono preamp and it's all I'd ever need, unless I find some khorns or la scala's that catch my eye, but for now I'm sticking with this setup. I've had these epics since 2000 and they've gone through many receivers and many listening rooms but this setup is by far the best. 

Yes, the Epics like power.   Though efficient, I get the feeling they get really happy with plenty of power to draw from.  17 years with your Epics. Very Cool!  I have had my CF3's for about 15 years now and still going strong.

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Replying to the question of location and sound transmission.  I have the 2nd generation of the CF'2s and 3's, first generation of the CF-4.  If I move my speakers away from the rear and side walls - I notice a change in the richness of the sound - and it reduces a faint echo.  The most noticeable difference occurs with speaker height - getting them off the ground.  The port(s) near the bottom of the speaker are simply too close to the ground and believe it or not, in my opinion make a sound quality difference when the speaker is raised.  I believe there is more than air flow that occurs with the ports in the Epic line - and an additional benefit is raising the horn to ear height - or closer to it.

 

I have had custom speaker box platforms made at car toys - wrapped in sound deadening (inside) and covered with carpet - outside.  They will make the boxes to your specifications and they act as an isolation platform.  Best money I have ever spent.  My recommendation is to move your speakers around a little and see if you can hear a difference.  Getting them off the floor is a no-brainer in my opinion....plus that protects them when the vacuum gets close....

 

The room they are in has bass traps, sound resonance padding and fully carpeted.  I am fortunate to have a dedicated space to play around in.  Even small changes like bass traps in the corners of your room can make an audible difference.  In my opinion all these factors can help regardless of which generation of the Epic line you own.

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My pair of CF-2's have plenty of volume, detail and bass. You need to review them with the best recorded material you can find. Loreena McKennitt is spooky good.

One thing I did do was remove the horns and damp the inside surface with silicone. Other things I did were to affix to the inside surface of the cabinets a few roofing tiles (all but the top), but anything that creates a more non-resonant surface is good. Lastly, I took out those cheesy foam pads and stuffed the cabs with some good fiber-fil. I balled up a small bit of black fiber-fil and placed it in the tweeter output hole just for any possible "beaming" problems. Just a bit. If you're a purist, bevel the inside of the woofer holes, as is usually done with the more higher end loudspeakers.

It's also never a bad idea to re-cap any speaker. Simple and cheap, too.

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On 3/30/2017 at 6:17 PM, hutchintheclutch said:

One thing I did do was remove the horns and damp the inside surface with silicone.

CF-4's, me too.

 

Other things I did were to affix to the inside surface of the cabinets a few roofing tiles (all but the top), but anything that creates a more non-resonant surface is good.

 

Lastly, I took out those cheesy foam pads and stuffed the cabs with some good fiber-fil.

I kept the upper foam pads, used some fiber-fil in the bottom.  It made the speakers more accurate IMO.

 

I balled up a small bit of black fiber-fil and placed it in the tweeter output hole just for any possible "beaming" problems. Just a bit. If you're a purist, bevel the inside of the woofer holes, as is usually done with the more higher end loudspeakers.

How did your speakers sound after the fiber-fil?  The rule of thumb says foam for ported and fiber-fil for sealed but I had luck mixing them.

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A surprising lack of lower bass in not unheard of, in the Epic line.

I bought my CF-4 version 1s from a fellow forum member. They had been recapped, filled with fiber-fill and had silicone-damped horns.

Love the sound - dynamism, detail and effortless power. Certainly smoother than my CF-3 version 3s (which I consider pretty decent speakers).

However, the CF-4's one shortcoming is a steep LF roll-off, as one approaches 30Hz. Perhaps it's my oddly shaped living room with high ceilings.

Adding a pair of sealed 12" SVS subs, crossed over at about 60Hz, definitely remedied the sound, which is now truly full-range.

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here we have the Velodyne SMS bass EQ playing bass sweeps through my Epic CF3's. The microphone is about 2 feet in front of the left speaker to help remove the room.

As you can see, there is a decent amount of bass coming from the Epics.

 

  

DSCF0958.jpg

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As you can see in the sweep, subs are off by the way, the Epics have bass down in the mid 20hz range, so nearly full range.   They are on a suspended wood floor, and can shake the floor, as well as the couch.   

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On 4/4/2017 at 7:37 PM, wvu80 said:

How did your speakers sound after the fiber-fil?  The rule of thumb says foam for ported and fiber-fil for sealed but I had luck mixing them.

I never heard that rule. I have some rear ported Mission 765's that are stuffed pretty substantially with fiber-fil.

After everything the highs are much smoother and the low end is cleaner, tighter and deeper. Bass notes are more musical and less LFE, meaning it's easier to follow the melodic line of the bass. I had been using a sub to carry (and remove the load from my main amp) frequencies under 80 Hz which is definitely no longer needed.

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6 hours ago, hutchintheclutch said:
On 4/4/2017 at 7:37 PM, wvu80 said:

How did your speakers sound after the fiber-fil?  The rule of thumb says foam for ported and fiber-fil for sealed but I had luck mixing them.

I never heard that rule.

It's kind of Standard Operating Procedure in the DIY world.  For sealed you use 1 pound of fiber-fil for each Cuft of speaker.  A 3 cuft box would get 3 pounds of fiber-fil, again, just generally speaking.

 

My ported CF-4's had 1.5 inches of open-celled foam sheets in three different sections laying loose inside the cabs, not stapled to the sides.  I took out the sheets from the bottom section and scientifically grabbed a couple of fist-fulls of fiber-fill and stuffed it in the bottom of the speaker away from the ports.  I have no earthly idea how much is in there.  I think it helped "tuned" the sound to my tastes, the accuracy of the sound is uncanny when paired with my 15" DIY sealed sub.

 

Everybody seems to make their own "add salt to taste" when it comes to speaker insulation and stuffing.

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Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I had to chime in to say that I have never felt underwhelmed by my CF-2's. If anything, I don't think they get the attention they deserve in the Epic line.

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I'm always amazed by how good my CF-3's sound and there's nothing on the horns just yet. Just better braced cabinets and updated crossovers. It still makes me ponder whether or not I'll be happy with my Belle clones once they're done. I've already had and sold off KLF-30's and 1978 Cornwalls because they were underwhelming in comparison. Roy designed a fine series for sure. 

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On 7/6/2017 at 10:12 AM, burninator said:

Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I had to chime in to say that I have never felt underwhelmed by my CF-2's. If anything, I don't think they get the attention they deserve in the Epic line.

 

Agreed. Everyone I've introduced mine too have all asked the same question, "those are 8" drivers"? 

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Sorry for waking up this old thread, but I just purchased some CF-2's and I'm not happy. They sound like mud compared to the Polk Audio 5Bs. No highs at all. Could something be wrong with them like the crossover? The horn appears to be moving.

 

I want to power these with a Dynaco SCA-35, just 17 watts per channel. I was hoping the high efficiency would make up for the lack of power. At first I thought the amp had a bad channel (just trying one speaker). So I switched channels and still mud. Plenty of bass.

 

So I asked my son to grab an old RCA RV-9968A (20 watts per channel) - same thing.

 

Just wondering how many replaced caps in the XO's and if they noticed a difference. I'm hoping the horns aren't blown or damaged.

 

I'm not too picky on sound (rock and metal) but the CF-2 is not even close to sounding good.

 

Thanks.

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54 minutes ago, DonP said:

Sorry for waking up this old thread, but I just purchased some CF-2's and I'm not happy. They sound like mud compared to the Polk Audio 5Bs. No highs at all. Could something be wrong with them like the crossover? The horn appears to be moving.

 

I want to power these with a Dynaco SCA-35, just 17 watts per channel. I was hoping the high efficiency would make up for the lack of power. At first I thought the amp had a bad channel (just trying one speaker). So I switched channels and still mud. Plenty of bass.

 

So I asked my son to grab an old RCA RV-9968A (20 watts per channel) - same thing.

 

Just wondering how many replaced caps in the XO's and if they noticed a difference. I'm hoping the horns aren't blown or damaged.

 

I'm not too picky on sound (rock and metal) but the CF-2 is not even close to sounding good.

 

Thanks.

well from your description it would seem that you have purchased a pair of damaged loudspeakers which is most unfortunate but we have, most all here learned our lessons over the years in the same way. So please rather than dumping on the loudspeaker use this as a learning experience. Time to recap the networks and to contact Bob Ctites for tweeter parts as well as upgraded crossover capacitors then you can enjoy a truly fine set of Klipsch CF2 for decades to come. You are in the right place for all the good advice and help there is. Good luck with your project which I can assure you will be well worth both your time and money.  

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Update: Long story short, i believe someone replaced the speaker terminals. These had longer screws that interfered with the installation of the crossover PCB. The PCB was held in by two screws instead of three, and was at an angle because of touching the speaker terminal. This was shorting out the horn. I took the speaker back, and the seller installed some risers and longer screws to keep the XO board from shorting out.

 

My lesson to all is always listen to the speaker first before taking it. I bought from a high end reputable dealer, they said they tested the speakers a week before I purchased, but this was obviously a lie. There is no way this speaker ever worked correctly with the horn shorted out.

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I purchased a pair of CF-2's about a year ago at an estate sale along with an Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver for $110 total. Both items were in near mint condition. I had to find replacement feet for the speakers which took a little trial and error but now have them. The Onkyo needed a new DSP board after I used it for a few months (bad chips on the original board). Both are working great in my second audio room now. I have done nothing else to the speakers. I really enjoy these speakers and think they sound excellent with all varieties of music.

 

I have the CF-2's on 4" stands which put the tweeter at head level. They are slightly toed in. They are off the back wall about two feet. Where they are setup, there is ample bass. I do not think they were used much before I bought them. Now that I use them daily, they have really opened up.

 

In my other room I have a Marantz SR7013 paired with Klipsch RP-8000F's which I also love. It is easy for me to compare the different voices of each of these fine speakers. Depending on what I am listening too, I will prefer one over the other.

 

I lucked into the CF-2's but am very happy I did.

Klipsch-Epic-CF-2.jpg

Klipsch-Epic-CF2-SN-01-Comp.jpg

Klipsch-Epic-CF2-SN-02-Comp.jpg

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On 5/16/2019 at 11:02 PM, DonP said:

Sorry for waking up this old thread, but I just purchased some CF-2's and I'm not happy. They sound like mud compared to the Polk Audio 5Bs. No highs at all. Could something be wrong with them like the crossover? The horn appears to be moving.

 

I want to power these with a Dynaco SCA-35, just 17 watts per channel. I was hoping the high efficiency would make up for the lack of power. At first I thought the amp had a bad channel (just trying one speaker). So I switched channels and still mud. Plenty of bass.

 

So I asked my son to grab an old RCA RV-9968A (20 watts per channel) - same thing.

 

Just wondering how many replaced caps in the XO's and if they noticed a difference. I'm hoping the horns aren't blown or damaged.

 

I'm not too picky on sound (rock and metal) but the CF-2 is not even close to sounding good.

 

Thanks.

done properly , these will sound great

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22 minutes ago, JBQ said:

I purchased a pair of CF-2's about a year ago at an estate sale along with an Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver for $110 total. Both items were in near mint condition. I had to find replacement feet for the speakers which took a little trial and error but now have them. The Onkyo needed a new DSP board after I used it for a few months (bad chips on the original board). Both are working great in my second audio room now. I have done nothing else to the speakers. I really enjoy these speakers and think they sound excellent with all varieties of music.

 

I have the CF-2's on 4" stands which put the tweeter at head level. They are slightly toed in. They are off the back wall about two feet. Where they are setup, there is ample bass. I do not think they were used much before I bought them. Now that I use them daily, they have really opened up.

 

In my other room I have a Marantz SR7013 paired with Klipsch RP-8000F's which I also love. It is easy for me to compare the different voices of each of these fine speakers. Depending on what I am listening too, I will prefer one over the other.

 

I lucked into the CF-2's but am very happy I did.

 

great speakers -----

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Congrats, a heck could of a deal.

What at you powering them now.

Welcome to the forum!

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I power them with the Onkyo TX-NR3008. 140 Watt. It has some power and weighs over 60 Lbs. I have also used my old Luxman R-115, 70 Watts and it did a fabulous job as well.

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