All audio & non-essesntials on hold - 2 years

[mustang guy]

You can post youtube videos by simply pasting the actual youtube link like this. My dog Angel being all sweet just now. I woke her up...

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by mustang guy

[Matthews]

This is so cool, "MG"

Thank you Sir...

Edited July 10, 2016 by Matthews

[DizRotus]

I second that.

[jason str]

 

 

 

Modern engines are sooo much better than the engines of yesteryear. When talking GM products, anything 350 based is 50s technology. Go with an LS based powerplant and it opens up much more potential for HP.

 

I disagree.

 

Modern engines are nothing but cheap lightweight versions of what they once were.

 

Modern electronics maybe, it depends but its going to cost you.

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans and rear end to accommodate higher horsepower and RPM.

 

If money were no option i would go with a inter-cooled turbo but i don't think for a street machine it would be warranted.

 

 

What do you do to hop up a modern engine? Add nitrous and change the computer chip. How romantic.

JJK

 

 

 

Sorry, but he is correct!

 

Dart Machine makes brand new aftermarket blocks and heads for the LS small block Chevy and aftermarket cranks as well. The aftermarket LS heads offer way bigger flow numbers!

 

I have seen some really fast 454 cubic inch small block LS engines, in the flesh at drag week!

 

Roger

 

 

Notice i mentioned budget.

 

500 horsepower in a Corvette on the street is plenty to get you in trouble, racing is a different story.

[mustang guy]

 

Open an account at Imgur and upload your pictures there. It's easy to get a link for a picture you uploaded.

+1 and stay away from Photo Bucket!!!

 

I stopped using photobucket. It's slow and stupid. Imgur rox.

[Islander]

Is that a true W code Vette? Look at the 5th digit of the VIN. If it's W then it's a true LS5 454 ci. 

 

The engine number last 5 digits should match the last 5 digits of the VIN if it's a matching numbers car.

 

The HP ratings of all domestic cars tanked in 1971. The 454 in 1970 was rated with 390 or 465 HP options and those numbers were underrated. The 1972 454 was rated at a meager 270 HP. Food for thought.

 

Many people are misinformed about the change in horsepower ratings in 1971.  The earlier cars were rated "SAE Gross", which meant the engine was on a stand, with no accessories, like the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, and so on, and I believe it would have had an open exhaust.

 

The 1971 and later engines were rated "SAE Net", which meant with the engine in the car, with all the accessories it would normally have, and a full street exhaust.  This was much more realistic.

 

Back in 1977, I bought a 1971 Corvette with the base 350 engine, 4-speed, T-tops and A/C.  You would think a 6-year-old car with only 64,000 miles on the clock (Canada was not metric for another year) would be in top shape, but this 'Vette was tired.  Really tired.  The shifter was worn out, and I'd often get third gear when I wanted first, the alternator failed on a road trip, the cam sprocket failed in a January Toronto blizzard (Drove it home with the cam mis-timed and the engine running really badly.  Lucky it was not an interference engine.  I replaced the cam sprocket and timing chain in another blizzard in a parking lot under a tarp), and even the wiper linkages were worn to the point where the wiper door would catch the wipers when you closed it, because the wipers would not fully retract to their parking position.  The headlight lids were a bit unpredictable, too, so I often left them open.  There's a little switch under the steering column to do that, and another one to leave the automatic wiper door open.

 

I even carried some coathangers with me, in case anything in the exhaust system came loose when I was on the road and I had to wire it up.  What else?  The rear suspension linkage was too worn to be adjusted to the correct zero camber, so I bent the link arms to set the camber correctly.  The A/C only worked occasionally, and I didn't even check into the price to fix it.

 

It seems likely that the car had way more miles on it than were showing on the odometer, but on the bright side, some 'Vettes barely depreciate.  I was able to sell it two years later for $50 more than I'd paid for it, and it was in rougher shape by then.  Its monthly maintenance and repairs cost more than I could comfortably afford, so I sold it and bought a really cheap car.  This often happens.  I call it "used Corvette fatigue", where you get so tired of throwing money at a car that you get rid of it and buy the cheapest vehicle you can find.

 

Back to the horsepower.  The 1971 Corvette base 350 was rated at 270 horsepower gross, but the 1972 engine, which was essentially identical, was rated at 210 horsepower net.

 

Here's a explanation of gross versus net horsepower:

 

http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-technology-definitions/gross-versus-net-horsepower/

 

Nowadays, many shops have Dynojet dynos that measure power at the drive wheels, which is much more realistic, since it shows how much power actually gets to the ground after the losses in the transmission, differential, and so on.

 

 

Modern cars are way, way, better built.  They go faster, last longer, and use less fuel.  They handle and stop better, too.  I could go on, but this looks like a rant already, so I'll stop now.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Islander

[Islander]

If you like reading car specs and comparing different cars, this is the site for you.  It has listings of hundreds of car brands, many of which I'd never heard.  You can choose several cars and compare nearly everything, from horsepower to gear ratios to overall size and weight, and so on, sometimes with different trim lines and engines listed separately.

 

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/

[Matthews]

in a January Toronto blizzard

Once I finally achieve my goal, this car will never see snow, much less a drop of rain.  Garaged and babied till I die

Modern cars are way, way, better built. They go faster, last longer, and use less fuel. They handle and stop better, too.

Who cares - it's a '72 Corvette Roadster!  If a Ford Fiesta is what a person desires, more power to him/her.  I don't know many who dream of careening down the open back highways in a Fiesta.  Although, driving all in itself is fun, no matter what (generally)   

 

At my price point, fresh and ready for the road is all that is required.  Well, and side pipes, T-tops and a 4 speed manual

 

Matt ♪ ♫ ♪

[JJkizak]

 

Is that a true W code Vette? Look at the 5th digit of the VIN. If it's W then it's a true LS5 454 ci. 

 

The engine number last 5 digits should match the last 5 digits of the VIN if it's a matching numbers car.

 

The HP ratings of all domestic cars tanked in 1971. The 454 in 1970 was rated with 390 or 465 HP options and those numbers were underrated. The 1972 454 was rated at a meager 270 HP. Food for thought.

 

Many people are misinformed about the change in horsepower ratings in 1971.  The earlier cars were rated "SAE Gross", which meant the engine was on a stand, with no accessories, like the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, and so on, and I believe it would have had an open exhaust.

 

The 1971 and later engines were rated "SAE Net", which meant with the engine in the car, with all the accessories it would normally have, and a full street exhaust.  This was much more realistic.

 

Back in 1977, I bought a 1971 Corvette with the base 350 engine, 4-speed, T-tops and A/C.  You would think a 6-year-old car with only 64,000 miles on the clock (Canada was not metric for another year) would be in top shape, but this 'Vette was tired.  Really tired.  The shifter was worn out, and I'd often get third gear when I wanted first, the alternator failed on a road trip, the cam sprocket failed in a January Toronto blizzard (Drove it home with the cam mis-timed and the engine running really badly.  Lucky it was not an interference engine.  I replaced the cam sprocket and timing chain in another blizzard in a parking lot under a tarp), and even the wiper linkages were worn to the point where the wiper door would catch the wipers when you closed it, because the wipers would not fully retract to their parking position.  The headlight lids were a bit unpredictable, too, so I often left them open.  There's a little switch under the steering column to do that, and another one to leave the automatic wiper door open.

 

I even carried some coathangers with me, in case anything in the exhaust system came loose when I was on the road and I had to wire it up.  What else?  The rear suspension linkage was too worn to be adjusted to the correct zero camber, so I bent the link arms to set the camber correctly.  The A/C only worked occasionally, and I didn't even check into the price to fix it.

 

It seems likely that the car had way more miles on it than were showing on the odometer, but on the bright side, some 'Vettes barely depreciate.  I was able to sell it two years later for $50 more than I'd paid for it, and it was in rougher shape by then.  Its monthly maintenance and repairs cost more than I could comfortably afford, so I sold it and bought a really cheap car.  This often happens.  I call it "used Corvette fatigue", where you get so tired of throwing money at a car that you get rid of it and buy the cheapest vehicle you can find.

 

Back to the horsepower.  The 1971 Corvette base 350 was rated at 270 horsepower gross, but the 1972 engine, which was essentially identical, was rated at 210 horsepower net.

 

Here's a explanation of gross versus net horsepower:

 

http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-technology-definitions/gross-versus-net-horsepower/

 

Nowadays, many shops have Dynojet dynos that measure power at the drive wheels, which is much more realistic, since it shows how much power actually gets to the ground after the losses in the transmission, differential, and so on.

 

 

Modern cars are way, way, better built.  They go faster, last longer, and use less fuel.  They handle and stop better, too.  I could go on, but this looks like a rant already, so I'll stop now.

 

The reason you had to bend the adjustment arms on the rear suspension is because of the end shaft wear on the yokes inside the differential. You should have replaced both yokes for a proper (minimum) repair. I have seen some with over 1/8" of wear on the ends.

JJK

[jason str]

While the gross and net horsepower change is a large factor to consider so is the fact compression was lowered, aggressive camshaft profiles were reduced by most manufactures along with many casting changes and emission controls over the next few years and by 1975 they were just a shell of what they once were.

 

To say they were essentially the same is not true with the exception they were still V-8's.

[mustang guy]

The history and perhaps the reasons behind starting to use SAE NET ratings rather than SAE Gross began in 1970. Even in the late 60's, insurance actuaries were putting pressure on the automakers to lie about the ratings they put on the air breathers. They said the 69 - 428 had 335 HP. Dyno tests have proven to be 450 Gross HP. Even the net HP would be substantially higher than the 335HP that showed on the breather.

 

I always thought it was lower because of the emissions controls that started in 71 and shortly thereafter the oil crisis in 1973. I am a Mustang guy and when I look at them, I avoid cars made after 70. They started looking dopey and they started getting feeble. It might be true that the 71 - 429 had more *** that a 70 - 428, but there is no doubt that the 70 - 429 would destroy a 71 - 429. There is no doubt that the change in body style from 70 to 71 was definitely not an upgrade. I am talking Mustangs here, not Vettes.

 

70 big 428 CJ and 429 Boss with lots or HP and even better torque. 

71 They made some 429 CJ but they were rare as hen's teeth

72-73 the 351 was the biggest engine available

74 - the first year of the Mustang 2 with a POS 2.8L

 

Yes, the SAE Net ratings are lower than the gross ratings. The RWHP is even lower, and as Jason mentioned, the actual best place to measure. My point was that there was a trend that began in 71 for the big manufacturers to get away from big muscle and head to Pintos and Chevettes. Those were the dark ages for gear heads like me.

[Don Richard]

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

[mustang guy]

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

That's the CT350. Almost 400 lb ft torque. A real bargain. PS: carb not included in this price: http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19258602/10002/-1

 

Has anybody tried this new Holley FI yet? It's only $1,000 which is very reasonable...  http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/510/550-510/10002/-1

[JJkizak]

 

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

That's the CT350. Almost 400 lb ft torque. A real bargain. PS: carb not included in this price: http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19258602/10002/-1

 

Has anybody tried this new Holley FI yet? It's only $1,000 which is very reasonable...  http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/510/550-510/10002/-1

 

 

Carb? Carb? I'm surprised you all still know what it is. Do you have a picture?

JJK

[DizRotus]

I don't know many who dream of careening down the open back highways in a Fiesta. 

 

 

My brother lives on Gull Lake in Richland, MI.  Many of his neighbors are extremely wealthy and have exotic cars.  One neighbor has ~40 Ford Fiestas, the kind made in Germany. He has a climate controlled barn full of them.  Go figure.  To each his own.

Edited July 12, 2016 by DizRotus

[Matthews]

~40 Ford Fiestas

He has a climate controlled barn full of them.. Go figure. To each his own.

Too funny... 

[jason str]

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

 

350 horsepower will move a Corvette pretty well, maybe great for a daily driver but would leave me looking for more.

 

 

 

 

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

That's the CT350. Almost 400 lb ft torque. A real bargain. PS: carb not included in this price: http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19258602/10002/-1

 

Has anybody tried this new Holley FI yet? It's only $1,000 which is very reasonable...  http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/510/550-510/10002/-1

 

 

Carb? Carb? I'm surprised you all still know what it is. Do you have a picture?

JJK

 

 

Seems like the younger crowd gets scared away when you actually have to use something called a choke on cold starts.

 

I always ran Holley's on my machines and never had an issue after initial tuning and adjustments, just don't buy some crappy worn out rebuilt model and you will be good to go.

[mustang guy]

 

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

 

350 horsepower will move a Corvette pretty well, maybe great for a daily driver but would leave me looking for more.

 

 

 

 

 

You can easily get 500+ horsepower on a 350 block with a carburetor and electronic ignition, if i were on a budget the money saved would be used to update the suspension, trans

 

He can get a Chevy ZZ-4 350 cu.in. crate motor that comes complete with carb, distributor, plugs, water pump etc.that puts out 350 HP for under $4,000, plus it drops right in. I know a couple of guys running those engines in Vettes and hot rods that are pretty fast.

 

That's the CT350. Almost 400 lb ft torque. A real bargain. PS: carb not included in this price: http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19258602/10002/-1

 

Has anybody tried this new Holley FI yet? It's only $1,000 which is very reasonable...  http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/510/550-510/10002/-1

 

 

Carb? Carb? I'm surprised you all still know what it is. Do you have a picture?

JJK

 

 

Seems like the younger crowd gets scared away when you actually have to use something called a choke on cold starts.

 

I always ran Holley's on my machines and never had an issue after initial tuning and adjustments, just don't buy some crappy worn out rebuilt model and you will be good to go.

 

From my tumultuous experience with carburetors, I liked the Carter carbs best. Even old ones... They were simple and they worked. Holley was good till it needed a rebuild kit, then it was a huge pain. Rochesters were even worse than Holley IMO. I have been defeated by both brands. As for foreign carbs, I like Keihin most. Right now there is one old retired engineer from Dupont who can rebuild about any carb on the planet. When I have carb troubles, I call Russ...

 

As far as chokes go, sometimes the carb is simply tuned too lean on the idle circuit and is seems cold natured. Easy fix with a new jet and maybe some adjustment on the AP circuit. Setting the choke on a carb that has the wrong idle jet and an AP that isn't set right is like putting the cart before the horse.  At least this has been my experience. 

[Travis In Austin]

While the gross and net horsepower change is a large factor to consider so is the fact compression was lowered, aggressive camshaft profiles were reduced by most manufactures along with many casting changes and emission controls over the next few years and by 1975 they were just a shell of what they once were.

To say they were essentially the same is not true with the exception they were still V-8's.

Very much true, plus unleaded gas came in, and you also have CA emission stds as an issue.

[Islander]

While the gross and net horsepower change is a large factor to consider so is the fact compression was lowered, aggressive camshaft profiles were reduced by most manufactures along with many casting changes and emission controls over the next few years and by 1975 they were just a shell of what they once were.

 

To say they were essentially the same is not true with the exception they were still V-8's.

 

AFAIK, the low-compression engines started showing up in 1973 or 1974 and were around for the rest of the decade.

 

Cars are much more powerful nowadays, and they're more reliable, too.  Jay Leno got one of the first Hellcat Challengers and compared it to his 70s model.  The 2015 model has a typical modern long warranty, while the early one had a warranty of only 90 days.  The early Vipers made only 400 horsepower, then there was the 500 hp model, and now the 2016 ACR version puts out 645 horsepower.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the new ones use less fuel than the early ones as well.

 

Here's the segment.  Jay drives a lot of fast cars and has picked up some driving skills in the process.

 

Jay Leno's 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWMjR3r-nsI