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Suggestions regarding police interactions


DizRotus
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It also should not be allowed that people in the name of "Free speech"....should be able to get in the face of police and degrade them, taunt them, threaten them and everything else that is going on in this day and age. There used to be a respect for lawmen, those days are gone. When people are told "This is a police line, do not cross or you will be arrested".....and twenty people step up to cross the line for no other reason but to defy the order, sorry they should be arrested.

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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

 

There are two sides to every story and until anyone knows all of the facts, nobody should jump to conclusions for either side. I don't think anyone should die at the hands of police. White, black, Asian, Hispanic....nobody.

 

At the same time until you are in the shoes of one of these officers you have no idea what is really going on.

 

https://www.facebook.com/Support-Police-Officers-1506821589619159/?pnref=story

Not only to be in their shoes but in this day and age when everyone is a videographer people are just looking for someone to make a scapegoat be it a fatal one or not. I wonder how many of us could work not only in a stressful workplace but always knowing someone is there ready to capture their every move and send it to the Great,Vindictive and Judgemental Web? Oh and how many of these videographers (I mean those experts who carry a cell phone) ever make the effort to show a cop just going about his business, neither good or bad? These do-good are also looking for ther 15 minutes of fame through the tragedies of others. Blood suckers.

 

 

Law Enforcement definitely have it tough, but the cop in Minnesota didn't shoot the guy because his girl friend was videoing him-- The video tape I want to see is the dashcam from the police cruiser.

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Remember Zen, the girlfriend's tape does not show anything leading up to the shooting....only after the shooting occurred. If in fact a dash cam, body cam or other video comes out we will all know a lot more.

Edited by teaman
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It also should not be allowed that people in the name of "Free speech"....should be able to get in the face of police and degrade them, taunt them, threaten them and everything else that is going on in this day and age. There used to be a respect for lawmen, those days are gone. When people are told "This is a police line, do not cross or you will be arrested".....and twenty people step up to cross the line for no other reason but to defy the order, sorry they should be arrested.

 

At my old house probably 15 years ago, we heard a bunch of commotion out front, coupled with girls giggling and cruiser lights, it was a weird combination.  My wife and I went outside and walked to the end of our driveway since we had thick pine trees in the front yard and couldn't see what was going on.  Basically a cop was running a one man traffic check station, along with a couple of civilian girls, and he was showing off for them.  As soon as he saw us he walks over to us and starts barking/yelling at us to get back in the house or else we will be arrested for obstructing a police officer or some BS.  The whole time the girls were laughing and giggling, and keep in mind that we never left our property or said a word nor were there for more than a few seconds.  Looking back, I would have given anything to have caught that on camera, and no, I would not have complied had that happened today.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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It also should not be allowed that people in the name of "Free speech"....should be able to get in the face of police and degrade them, taunt them, threaten them and everything else that is going on in this day and age. There used to be a respect for lawmen, those days are gone. When people are told "This is a police line, do not cross or you will be arrested".....and twenty people step up to cross the line for no other reason but to defy the order, sorry they should be arrested.

 

I agree with most of what you have said above. Otoh, I had someone on here yesterday tell me that he should be able to say anything he ******* wants to to the police if he didn't break any laws.......There is a definite gray area in there in which I could agree, but I think the dynamics in poorer  neighborhoods speaks more of racial history that also clouds these situations.  

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Remember Zen, the girlfriend's tape does not show anything leading up to the shooting....only after the shooting occurred. If in fact a dash cam, body cam or other video comes out we will all know a lot more.

 

I am in TOTAL agreement with this and probably stated it when we were cross posting. This thread was started about a general discussion on what to do if the police stop you--My guess is the guy wasn't as calm as his girl friend was on the video--Don't know, but can't imagine it went down like she said and it will be interesting to see what more comes out.

Edited by Zen Traveler
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This thread was started about a general discussion on what to do if the police stop you--

 

My guess is the guy wasn't as calm as his girl friend was on the video--Don't know, but can't imagine it went down like she said and it will be interesting to see what more comes out.

 

I really agree with the part I bolded ^^^.  I have participated in this discussion on that because I feel a need somewhat to express that, but certainly not to any of the people on this board.  And politically, we are not a united group.  Some liberal, most middle, some right leaning conservatives.

 

But I am telling you, there is nobody I know of who is currently posting on this discussion forum who is "the problem" or who will ever be "the problem."  We are much more alike than different.

+++

 

Speaking for me, I am staying away from the details of the shootings (ALL of them, BOTH sides) because frankly I find it upsetting and it makes me feel unsettled.

 

There are times I can face it and deal with it.  Right now, it's just not a good time for me to do that.  Maybe later, and maybe in another venue.

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Personally, when your nerves and adrenaline kick in, your reaction is not what you expected. This is why a person does one thing and remembers doing something totally different, be it a policeman or ordinary citizen. That's where more training for the police comes into play, and restraint on both sides is of great value.

Bruce

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Personally, when your nerves and adrenaline kick in, your reaction is not what you expected. This is why a person does one thing and remembers doing something totally different, be it a policeman or ordinary citizen. That's where more training for the police comes into play, and restraint on both sides is of great value.

Bruce

 

Bruce, really nicely stated.

 

The problem is, the police ARE pretty well trained.  The people they train ARE pretty good people.  The people who are stopped or detained by the police ARE pretty good people.

 

The problem is, the training isn't perfect.  The cops aren't perfect, and the people detained aren't all perfect.  It is within this 1% that 99% of the tragic outcomes happen.

Edited by wvu80
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Personally, when your nerves and adrenaline kick in, your reaction is not what you expected.

 

Personally, when mine do I have a keen sense on what is about to happen--Point taken, however that every situation is different.

Edited by Zen Traveler
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It also should not be allowed that people in the name of "Free speech"....should be able to get in the face of police and degrade them, taunt them, threaten them and everything else that is going on in this day and age. There used to be a respect for lawmen, those days are gone. When people are told "This is a police line, do not cross or you will be arrested".....and twenty people step up to cross the line for no other reason but to defy the order, sorry they should be arrested.

Yea Teaman, I don't get this either. Especially the ones who are taunting the police with full on masks or disguises on. As in "I know this is being videoed and I don't want to be ID ed". These people should be arrested and if by the time they get booked they are bleeding, Oh well too bad, you're an idiot! Just my $0.02.

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These people should be arrested and if by the time they get booked they are bleeding, Oh well too bad, you're an idiot! Just my $0.02.

 

 

Ya know, sentiments above may very well be what some of us think, but it's that practice that has gotten police departments into big trouble.  

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My most recent interaction with Police was in Seattle, 3 years ago, and refreshingly pleasant.

Montgomery Alabama, not very pleasant at all. Vehicle searched, extensive questioning - didn't even get a warning let alone a ticket. In God I trust - all others I monitor. 

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It also should not be allowed that people in the name of "Free speech"....should be able to get in the face of police and degrade them, taunt them, threaten them and everything else that is going on in this day and age. There used to be a respect for lawmen, those days are gone. When people are told "This is a police line, do not cross or you will be arrested".....and twenty people step up to cross the line for no other reason but to defy the order, sorry they should be arrested.

I agree with you here.  However, you have the small percentage of corrupt cops that are protected by the "blue shield" or "brotherhood". This brotherhood is not one of pigmentation but occupation and power. How do I know...because I worked in corrections for almost three years. It was very scary working in that environment - you not only had to watch the inmates...you had to watch the officers as well, especially if you were a tower operator because they thought you were planted snitches in the first place. 

 

I would never cross a police line, however I also expect not to be stopped on general purposes either. I'm also a holder of a Verbal Judo certificate, stating that I'm well trained in the art of de-escalation. I can see what's happening on both sides of the fence because I've lived there ;)   :D

Edited by prerich
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That brings up a good point--If the police ask to search your car should you let them?

Montgomery....yeah - i'm going to let them search. I've seen enough in Detroit back in the 70's with the Big 4 units, and other things as well.  Is it right...no, but what can you do?  I fear for my sons because they are financially independent and have decent vehicles.  This however makes them open for profiling (My youngest got tazed in Huntsville in the performance of his military duties...he was authorized to wear civvies - that officer was fired after they found out that he was active duty military and hadn't done anything worthy of a stop except drive a brand new Buick Regal, with a Fl tag in Huntsville where people of his kind don't have those type of vehicles...it was a Buick). 

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That brings up a good point--If the police ask to search your car should you let them?

 

In my opinion, no, not at all, you should plainly state that you do not consent to a search but you will not resist.  The 4th amendment doesn't exist for nothing, and nothing good can come from it.  

 

Same thing when they ask "where are you going"?  You point down the road and say "that way".  I realize this is a seemingly innocent tactic to see if you start giving weird conflicting statements and more or less to see how you react, but still, It's none of their business where you are going, nothing good can come from your explanation.  This is America, we don't have the Gestapo here.  We shouldn't act like we do.  

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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That brings up a good point--If the police ask to search your car should you let them?

 

I grew up in Windsor, Ontario Canada and used to cross the US / Can border almost daily for six years when dating my wife and I can tell you I have been harassed more by the US border patrol than by any cop. They used to do random shakedowns and ransacking of my car for no other reason than they did not like the Camaro I drove or the long hair and earrings I had. I had three border clearance certificates to prove I had never been arrested. One was my local Windsor Police background check. One was from my Ontario Provincial Police detachment and one was my Canada wide RCPM clearance...and guess what?...if for whatever reason they did not like me this day or that they had every right to turn me around and not allow me entry into the US. There are definitely those in positions of power that abuse their standing for no other reason than to piss people off. It is too bad that in many police depts. the same crap goes on. You can only hope that eventually these bad apples get weeded out.

 

 

 

Tim

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That brings up a good point--If the police ask to search your car should you let them?

 

As an attorney and former prosecutor, my answer is YES.  A street interaction with a police officer is not the time to instruct the officer on the law.  If an officer asked for my phone or to search my car, I would politely ask if he/she has a warrant.  That said, I would not risk a physical altercation to avoid an illegal search of my car or seizure of the phone.  If your rights are violated you can address that later through proper channels.  If you're shot and killed by an angry officer, your opportunity to appeal is gone.

 

This discussion about how to refer to the officer is troubling.  Any "Trooper" who is offended by being respectfully addressed as "Officer" should not be in law enforcement.  And this expressed problem with "Sir" bothers me.  We've all seen the person with a military background who constantly and respectfully says, "yes sir" or "no sir."  I've observed more than one such contestant on Jeopardy address Alex Trebeck that way.  If some veteran addressed me as "sir" I would politely inform him/her that it is not necessary, then I would let it go.

 

Technically  a judge should be addressed as "your honor" not "sir" or "madam."  IMO, good judges might casually correct someone who uses a respectful term other than "your honor" but then let it go.  IMO, bad judges, of which there are many, will get indignant and make it clear that they are offended.  It all comes down to treating everyone with respect, civility and dignity, no matter who you are or how important you think you are, or how unimportant you think they are.

 

I'm pleased and surprised that this thread has gotten this far.  Only a few posters have been unable to resist knee-jerk agenda driven posts.  On the whole, the dialogue has been thoughtful, respectful and, I hope, productive.

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