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Suggestions regarding police interactions


DizRotus
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-morgan/5-reasons-you-should-neve_b_1292554.html

http://hwblaw.com/never-consent-to-a-search/

http://jayrameylaw.com/know-your-rights/

"1. NEVER grant permission to the police (or anyone else) to search your house, car, bags/luggage, person or any other property.

2. During a traffic stop, do not answer questions that are not related to the stop, such as where are you coming from or where you are going, if you are carrying large sums of cash, where your work, or what the purpose of your travel is. If the officer persists with these questions, tell him you want to speak with your attorney. If the officer tells you that you are free to go, then LEAVE. Do not agree to stay and answer more questions."

NEVER carry large sums of cash in Louisiana on I-10!!!!! Any amount of cash over $100 can be assumed as money gained from illegal activity.  They will confiscate the money....regardless of color. 

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Once I went to buy a chess set, one of the more fancy ones.  I lived in a well to do neighborhood near the shopping area.  Being a new resident, I did not think much about it.  After going in several stores I left to go home.  As soon as I got to my car, 5 police cars surrounded me.  I politely ask what is wrong.  They said a suspicious person was sighted in some of the stores.  I told them that I had not seen such a person, lol.  Being a person of color, I immediately new the suspicious person was me.  Color can make a huge difference is some communities.  I was asked a couple of question and left to go on my merry way.

 I know this is off topic, but I've got to ask this since you're a person of color. I have a friend who writes for one of the more popular audio publications.  I asked him how rare are people of color at audio shows.  He told me extremely rare!!! Do you ever have a problem going into a high end store and people "qualifying" you as as a customer?  

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What if it's a bad cop who drops some coke in the car? And you were being so nice to let him search your car...

 

Of course that could happen but it's a possibility, not a probability

 

I have great faith in the system that the truth would come out.

+++

 

I'm being sincere when I say the cops can search my car, search my house, it's really not a problem.  :)

Where I would draw the line is if they ask me to consent to a voluntary cavity search.

 

I like the cops, but not that much.  :blink:

 

That's the fear that people of color live with. I've learned (in my three years in law enforcement) that even if there is nothing - if the LEO is corrupt, they will make something up.  I was even called in by my police chief one time LOL!!!! My chief called me in to his office and asked me why I had a "bubble gum machine".  I told him it wasn't a bubble gum machine - I didn't even know what a bubble gum machine was LOL!!!! 

 

He told me that he could put me in with the criminals that I watch each day.  He said corrections personnel don't have the right to have a blue light in their car. Then I knew what he was talking about, - that wasn't a blue light - that was a blue Roadway shipping cup that sits on your dash ( I got it from my previous place of employment as a customer service manager). My wife was the driver and she put her morning coffee it the cup.  I told him it was a cup and that I could show it to him when my wife picked me up from work in the evening. He told me never mind - that he believed me, but I left out of there saying ...I'm not trying to stay in law enforcement long. 

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Philando should have started the conversation by stating that he had a CCL, and then asked for instructions. Announcing that you have a firearm, and then going for your wallet is just asking for trouble. Even a privileged white guy could end up catching some bullets in that situation.

Diamond Reynolds keeps contradicting herself - I have now heard three different accounts from her regarding the incident.

Edited by Deang
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At least when you’re in a CCDW class, usually they try to teach you about such things.  My concern is that in some states (Kentucky), they allow ANYBODY to carry a pistol in the glove compartment.  All it takes is one little slip up where you or your passenger forgets that there’s a pistol there, then for an officer to ask for your registration.  Globe box pops open, pistol gets flashed, and BLAM, that’s worthy of a shootin’, apparently. They've legally done nothing wrong though.  It’s happened before. 

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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As our technology continues to flourish we can hope that one day soon that at birth doctors can implant a video camera in our forehead to record each and every wrong in our lives and make those wrongdoers pay and pay dearly. I suppose with the camera an index for the closest lawyer to your geographic location might be handy too. As we grow through childhood each and very playground incident will be recorded for possible legal action down the road; each athletic activity noted to assure that ego soothing participation trophy; should your parents become heavy handed with a swat to the rear a call to child services will be in order with complete documentation of course; school teachers watch your P's and Q's as you will be prime time video on the Forehead Cam network; employers would be wise to hire any and all Forehead Camrs' or else a quick scan of the lawyer index is in order; and police stops - the battles of police vest cams, new era police with Forehead Cams and civilian Forehead Cams will take place. Let the video wars begin. Glad I'm 63 and will be gone prior to this needed technology but pity my grand kids and the crap world we are handing them.

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That brings up a good point--If the police ask to search your car should you let them?

Well worth the time they take to view.

A lawyer's perspective, a cop's perspective and a constitutional overview

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 - YouTube

10 Rules for Dealing with Police (Full-Length) - YouTube

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The most messed up thing I've seen in regards to things like this was a friend of mine who got killed.  He was a laid back soft spoken professional network engineer 15 years ago but got into a high stress job, had a breakdown, and went on disability.  He was managing this situation mostly ok, but due to a certain national health care situation that I won't get into per forum rules, he lost his insurance, and therefore his psych meds.  He made it maybe a week after this.  One day he grabbed a decorative samurai sword that he kept on his mantle plus a pellet gun and just let off some steam, started bashing stuff in his house with these objects and yelling stuff about just wanting to die.  I mean, should be no surprise, withdrawal from psych meds is no joke.  

 

Well, it was loud enough that the neighbors heard him so they called the cops, concerned that he was going to commit suicide.  They send an officer out to do a welfare check and bring along an ambulance, which is standard procedure.  What’s apparently NOT standard procedure is for the cop to have a buddy as a ride-along with them during such things.  Apparently the cop knocked on the door but nobody answered then was walking back, and the buddy sitting in the car happens to look in a bedroom window and see Mike, and this guy starts yelling stuff about “he’s got a gun! Watch out!”  The cop freaks out, runs back to the cruiser, puts it in reverse, falls back to the road, grabs his AR-15, uses the car as cover, then starts yelling at him through the intercom.  Confused, Mike goes to the door, with samurai sword and pellet gun still in hand.  A few seconds later he’s got two 5.56 rounds in his lungs and died a few days later. 

 

The cop claimed that Mike charged at him and pointed a gun at him.  Obviously I'm biased since I knew the guy, knew it was a pellet gun, knew it was an unsharpened decorative sword, knew that Mike was very slow at this point in his life, and that we went Jeep riding and worked together, but the fact of the matter is that it was a call for a suicide watch for somebody with a known mental illness, and such things shouldn’t end with the cop shooting the potential suicide victim with a rifle due to a civilian buddy overreacting.  He also has quite a large yard and I’m not sure he ever made it off the porch.  They never attempted to just call the guy on the phone, they were too worried about whipping that rifle out. 

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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While keeping your hands at 10 and 2 is good advice, it is not the law.

 

It is if you're carrying, or at least that is what the class was instructed to do.

Edited by Gilbert
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I would assume that the LEO already has quite a bit of information regarding the owner of the car (the presumed driver), from the car license plate, before he steps up to the address the driver (with the computers in all of the cop cars now).

 

If the information the LEO has indicates anything but a clean record, I would imagine that the LEO would be very guarded in that situation, and that could lead to a bad ending if the driver or passengers do anything unexpected.

Edited by Seadog
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The most messed up thing I've seen in regards to things like this was a friend of mine who got killed.  He was a laid back soft spoken professional network engineer 15 years ago but got into a high stress job, had a breakdown, and went on disability.  He was managing this situation mostly ok, but due to a certain national health care situation that I won't get into per forum rules, he lost his insurance, and therefore his psych meds.  He made it maybe a week after this.  One day he grabbed a decorative samurai sword that he kept on his mantle plus a pellet gun and just let off some steam, started bashing stuff in his house with these objects and yelling stuff about just wanting to die.  I mean, should be no surprise, withdrawal from psych meds is no joke.  

 

Well, it was loud enough that the neighbors heard him so they called the cops, concerned that he was going to commit suicide.  They send an officer out to do a welfare check and bring along an ambulance, which is standard procedure.  What’s apparently NOT standard procedure is for the cop to have a buddy as a ride-along with them during such things.  Apparently the cop knocked on the door but nobody answered then was walking back, and the buddy sitting in the car happens to look in a bedroom window and see Mike, and this guy starts yelling stuff about “he’s got a gun! Watch out!”  The cop freaks out, runs back to the cruiser, puts it in reverse, falls back to the road, grabs his AR-15, uses the car as cover, then starts yelling at him through the intercom.  Confused, Mike goes to the door, with samurai sword and pellet gun still in hand.  A few seconds later he’s got two 5.56 rounds in his lungs and died a few days later. 

 

The cop claimed that Mike charged at him and pointed a gun at him.  Obviously I'm biased since I knew the guy, knew it was a pellet gun, knew it was an unsharpened decorative sword, knew that Mike was very slow at this point in his life, and that we went Jeep riding and worked together, but the fact of the matter is that it was a call for a suicide watch for somebody with a known mental illness, and such things shouldn’t end with the cop shooting the potential suicide victim with a rifle due to a civilian buddy overreacting.  He also has quite a large yard and I’m not sure he ever made it off the porch.  They never attempted to just call the guy on the phone, they were too worried about whipping that rifle out. 

Are we ever going to hear something to the positive that a cop may have done or continue to dredge up each and every questionable action that always cast on the negative. I guess I'll go out on the limb and try for positive although it won't sound nearly as dramatic and/or negative (hope this is allowed). Many years ago my family was in the retail liqour business with three locations and a string of robberies had occurred with an employee being shot and paralyzed for life. So for a couple weeks we had cops stationed in our stores atop the walkin coolers, armed and ready for another robbery. Of course this had to end but the positive, yes this is a positive, several cops took it upon themselves to watch over the store for the next month. This was off duty time, not part of the original watch, just to add some security and let us breath a bit in the evening. Nothing ever came of it, no more robberies but at least enforcement had our backs.

And yes about a year later I was robbed at gunpoint myself. Never there when you need them, damn cops. (Though a bit of negativity was needed to keep things status quo).

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Philando should have started the conversation by stating that he had a CCL, and then asked for instructions. Announcing that you have a firearm, and then going for your wallet is just asking for trouble. Even a privileged white guy could end up catching some bullets in that situation.

Diamond Reynolds keeps contradicting herself - I have now heard three different accounts from her regarding the incident.

 

I agree. There are a lot of similarities with this story and the way the Michael Brown story went down. First thing you have to realize with the state of cops in America and movements like BLM the friends of the perps are not going to come clean in most instances. There is so much will to blame the police in these situations that even though the story the accomplice at the time of the shooting may know their friend was in the wrong, they still have all the people behind them to say otherwise. I mean, in the Ferguson case remember the eye witness saying Michael had his hands up saying don't shoot was an accomplice to the strong arming of a store just moments before. That pretty much tells me to not trust the person at their word. Diamond Reynolds in in pretty much the same position that Dorian was in with the situation in Ferguson in that she may be tied to that alleged armed robbery. It is all speculation at this point no matter who's word you are taking. Hopefully someone else will step forward with solid evidence of what the entire story is.

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I'm sure there are good police out there, but the ones I've interacted with have generally behaved like high school bullies.

The best suggestion I have is to be polite even when they're violating your rights.

And for the record, I'm a middle aged white guy with a college degree.

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New here. I was reading this yesterday before I registered today. I'm amazed at how uniform all the opinions are. Very law and order oriented group. Most serious studies indicate that policing is in very serious need of reform. I wonder if there is a geographical slant here? Good read.

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A week ago I received a frantic call from our younger son (not the DC officer). He had just totaled his car. No one was hurt but his FWD card had the drivetrain shoved into the firewall. Before I got there, an Oakland County Deputy Sherrif had stopped.

Our son, Ross, was talking with his girlfriend and failed to see the light was red until it was too late to stop. He panicked and slammed on the brakes anyway. The car veered to the right and struck the curb on the far corner almost straight on, ending up on the sidewalk. It was entirely his fault.

After confirming that nobody was injured, the Deputy went about his business. He eventually explained that he was required to issue a citation. Although he could have issued tickets for failing stop, careless driving, etc., which would have come with points and a fine, he wrote a ticket for "impeding traffic," which has a fine but no points. He was extremely apologetic about having to do even that.

Stories like the above are common, but boring. Ross' older brother treats people with respect and dignity every day. He took an oath to serve and protect the people of DC, which he does to the best of his ability. His difficult and dangerous job is not made easier by high profile situations that highlight bad police conduct.

Do you want positive? I'm positive good police far outnumber bad police officers. Unfortunately, I'm also positive that bad police officers are out there and they need to be replaced. I'm positive that people of color are justiably uncomfortable when interacting with the police. I'm positive the prejudices on both sides of the badge result in self-fulfilling prophecies. I'm trying to be positive that the situation is improving.

Edited by DizRotus
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I know this is off topic, but I've got to ask this since you're a person of color. I have a friend who writes for one of the more popular audio publications. I asked him how rare are people of color at audio shows. He told me extremely rare!!! Do you ever have a problem going into a high end store and people "qualifying" you as as a customer?

 

It's part of a numbers game.  Hispanics 17% is the largest US minority group followed by Blacks and then very small numbers of other groups.  As far as going in high end stores, Oprah had trouble in a high end store and she is filthy rich.  This is not the average or a common experience.  The problem comes in when one or two ignorant or prejudice person acts inappropriately

 

As I stated earlier, all of these type of acts are not malicious.  Some people just don't know that they may harbor some prejudice.  It's a simple definition, preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.  This does not say a person is good or bad.  There are many minorities that also are prejudice and have preconceived ideals about other groups.  Not to be confused with some mild paranoia, this can save your life, lol.

 

I was watching a television show 6-8 months ago.  The speaker mention retaliation toward the police may happen in this country.  It is a sad state that our nation is facing these type of problems again.  As a united nation, we can't keep seeing ourselves as separate groups.  A civilized nation needs police and police need to feel that they are giving service to the community. This can be accomplished once people quit blaming other people, the President, ect.  The real solution is in the hearts of man, all of us working together for the common good of our society

Edited by derrickdj1
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