mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Important new information (help if you can please): Changed prices of Zener diode. I found that there are two Zeners, and they are 10 watt chassis mount type. The part number for them is Microsemi Corporation 1N3998A, and they are readily available but are expensive. They are $30.71 each, and you need two so $61.42 per network or $122.84 per pair of networks. I would like to know what Klipsch uses now days for tweeter protection. Surely there is an alternative which isn't so expensive like a polyswitch in the KP-201 I have. Can you help:: ?? Is a crossover person here who could elaborate on a good tweeter protection that doesn't cost more than a pair of used networks would. Turning your AL crossover into an AA or AL-3 crossover or performing the "wdecho mod" on your AL. (This what wdecho has done with his AL's and he is very pleased with the results.) Lot's of folks are stuck with the "Notch Filter Happy" AL they don't like. Rather than throw money at it with new caps etcetera, perhaps you might consider modifying it to be an AA, an AL-3 or perform wdecho's mod on it? That's what this thread is about. Perhaps it would be more to your liking to simply snag a pair of used AA or AL-3 networks or buy some new improved ones or even build your own AA's. The important thing is that the decision is yours. Prices are as of July 2016 at Bob Crites' and Parts Express. Here they are. From cheapest to most expensive: wdecho's Modded AL (cost per pair of networks $19.00 plus shipping) NEW! ADD $122.84 if you need Zener diodes: [this is the AA but leaves the T2A transformer (-6db) and the 125mH on the tweeter] 1) woofer - remove the 2.5mH and 30uF 2) squawker - change the 8uF to a 13uF $8 each ($5-9 at PE for 12uF's) 3) squawker - remove the 2.7mH 4) squawker - remove the 2.5mH 5) squawker - remove the 8uF 6) squawker - remove the 8 Ohm 7) tweeter - remove 0.5 mH 8) tweeter - remove 125uH 9) tweeter - remove 2uF 10) tweeter - add two Zener diodes (if your crossover doesn't have one) $61.42 per pair for a network! Note: if you wish, you could buy a Crites AA re-cap kit ($96) per pair plus shipping with all new caps. If you need Zeners then I would recomend looking into the polyswitches used in the KP-201's wdecho's AL mod: AL to AA conversion (cost per pair of networks $97.00 plus shipping) NEW! ADD $122.84 if you need Zener diodes: 1) woofer - remove the 2.5mH and 30uF 2) squawker - change the 8uF to a 13uF $8 each ($5-9 at PE for 12uF's) 3) squawker - change the T3A to 3654 Crites $31 each 4) squawker - remove the 2.7mH 5) squawker - remove the 2.5mH 6) squawker - remove the 8uF 7) squawker - remove the 8 Ohm 8) tweeter - remove 0.5 mH 9) tweeter - remove 125uH 10) tweeter - remove 2uF 11) tweeter - add two Zener diodes (if your crossover doesn't have one) $61.42 per pair for a network! 12) tweeter - add 245uH (.25mH) $8 each Note: if you wish, you could buy a Crites AA re-cap kit ($96) and a pair of Crites 3654 autoformers ($62) and a pair of .25mH for a total cost of $174 per pair plus shipping with all new caps. If you need Zeners then I would recommend looking into the polyswitches used in the KP-201's. AL to AA conversion: AL to AL-3 conversion (cost per pair of networks $224.00 plus shipping): 1) woofer - change 2.5mH to 4 mH $21 2) woofer - add 2 - 68uF's $20 each 3) squawker - change 8uF to 13uF $8 each ($5-9 at PE for 12uF's) 4) squawker - change T3A to 3636 Crites $35 5) squawker - remove 8uF 6) squawker - change 2.5mH to 5mH $24 7) squawker - remove 8uF 8) squawker - remove 8 Ohm 9) tweeter - remove 1N3996 10) tweeter - add RDE 050 (varistor) $4 Note: if you wish, you could buy a Crites AL-3 re-cap kit ($123) and a pair of Crites 3636 autoformers ($70) a pair of 5mH's a pair of 4mH's and a pair of varistors for a total cost of $291 per pair plus shipping with all new caps. AL to AL-3 conversion: Thanks to wdecho, Bob Crites, and Matthews for helping create this thread... Oh and indirectly wvu80 gets some credit too. Edited July 27, 2016 by mustang guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Schematics for the 3 crossovers Refer to these when you are doing your conversion/mod. Original Klipsch AL crossover: wdecho's mod: Klipsch AA Crossover: Klipsch AL-3 Crossover: AL network source/driver Connections: Edited July 23, 2016 by mustang guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Great idea wdecho. We can call that a "Modified AL Network". If you could provide a schematic for that, I will add it as above. This would be cheaper if the taps on the transformers can't be worked out somehow, even using an Lpad for that. I still believe folks who want an AA or an AL-3 should be able to do that if they want. Crites and Deang sell autoformers, so that may be the cost folks bear to change to an AA or AL-3. Still, it would be nice to know if there is a tap on the T3A is the same as the T2A or the T4A. Even though they aren't the same network, there may be a person who can answer this question technically. Best case scenario would be to attenuate the existing T3A to match the T2A or T4A depending on which network one wants to replicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 The T3A used in the AL only provides an attenuation value of 6db. The T4A used in the AL-3 only provides an attenuation value of 4db. Most of the AL crossovers are not like the AL schematic posted above. Most do not have the zener diodes. I think those were only in the Pro model Lascalas. Bob Crites 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 The T3A used in the AL only provides an attenuation value of 6db. The T4A used in the AL-3 only provides an attenuation value of 4db. Most of the AL crossovers are not like the AL schematic posted above. Most do not have the zener diodes. I think those were only in the Pro model Lascalas. Bob Crites Thank you. Would buying a T4A (for the AL-3) or T2A (for the AA) from you be the best solution here? I still don't know what the T2A's attenuation is. Is it 6db by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Nice topic Craig, and timely. I don't know if this pic is helpful but feel free to use it anyway you like. Note: The screws in front that are shiny are replacements. There is one missing on the far right side. Edited July 18, 2016 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 The T2A had taps for 3,6,9,12 db. Does not have the 4db tap you would need for the AL-3. Neither the T2A or the T4A are manufactured now. My 3636 could give you any attenuation between 1db and 12db. On another subject, I think you will find the conversion from AL to AL-3 not to be economical. At least never made any sense to me anytime I added it up. Assuming you are going to also replace all the caps because of age, then you are left with only the two small air core inductors on the AL board to reuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Thanks Bob. I was thinking that having the crossover board already in a speaker, a person might choose to modify it rather than build an entirely new one or buy one stranding yet another poor AL to a closet. It will also give people something to do with all those AL's in closets right now like Matthew's. For instance, Dave (wvu80) shipped a pair of AL's to Mrpee for free. Now he is out all that money because Mrpee is finding out a kit for an AL isn't worth it. I don't even think you offer it, but I bet it would be at least $123. I see that you sell the 3636 for $35 each before shipping. If a person wanted an AA from an AL, then he could buy a pair of those and a pair of 13uF caps from you and have a working AA. I figure the total cost before shipping would actually be about $80. If that person wanted to update all the caps instead, then he could buy a pair of 3636's and a recap kit from you for $96. Total before shipping would be $166. That is only $26 more than the cost of an AL-3 re-cap kit alone. All that being said, I am the guy that doesn't like throwing stuff away. PS: I have never owned an AL crossover. Edited July 18, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Well, for converting to the AA, he could reuse 2.5mH inductor and that is all. As I mentioned most of the AL crossovers do not have the zener diodes (expensive) shown on the drawing above that you need to make the AA. You would also need a 245uH inductor, the autotransformer and the caps. You could get by with my 3654 autotransformer which is like the T2A and is a bit less expensive than the 3636. Again, hard to make that work out as a worthwhile project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 OK, I was missing the point you were making on the diode earlier, and I completely missed the 245 uH inductor. I shall add them to the list above. Win or lose, at least doing it this way clarifies things for me and hopefully many others out there. I have heard that the AL crossover makes a wonderful conversation piece. I will probably put wdecho's Modified AL on the top of the list, but all these details need worked out first. I hope this thread doesn't end with a big "If you have an AL thread, just go ahead and toss it because there is no way you will ever use it". I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Have I got these labelled right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have probably 10 or so pair of the ALs lying around. Last time the power was off during the summer, I discovered they make excellent door props to keep doors open. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have probably 10 or so pair of the ALs lying around. Last time the power was off during the summer, I discovered they make excellent door props to keep doors open. Ouch! It may be that the AL is not worth completely refurbishing but the thread is still worthwhile because the pros and cons are discussed in detail. I think there are more people out there like Craig who would rather refurb rather than simply pitch something. Good discussion with all sides covered. Let the reader decide what is best for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.pee1 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Mustang guy, on the schematic for the AL the polarity is +- ,+-,-+,-+ on your photos you have them as -+,-+,-+,-+ which one is the correct polarity? I plan on new caps any way that's no big deal. One cab is up and running and I am painting the other one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have updated the second post above to show just what will be left if you are making an AA. I reckon I should do a cost sheet for it, so people can decide for themselves if they want to toss their AL, shelf it or turn it into something useful even if it doesn't make financial sense to do so. In any event, I think I have the AL to AA done above. Have a look. I am going to have to figure out how much zeners are or if there are any good replacements transistors which would be a good or better replacement for a lower cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Mustang guy, on the schematic for the AL the polarity is +- ,+-,-+,-+ on your photos you have them as -+,-+,-+,-+ which one is the correct polarity? I plan on new caps any way that's no big deal. One cab is up and running and I am painting the other one. The polarity is reversed on the squawker and tweeter on your AL. Look at the schematic. edit: On the left, you can see the bus wire jumps polarity, and on the right, you connect the squawker and tweeter as shown in the photograph labels. second edit: before you order caps, let's see what wdecho says about the mods he made. You should strongly consider at least doing that. Edited July 18, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.pee1 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 This is great and I thank all involved for this information. It gives some of us another option, or collect parts and build AA's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Mr. Pee you said you got one cab up and running. How does it sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 a pair of AL's going in the burn pile - Who wants em'? Matt ♪ ♫ ♪ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/113804-klipsch-crossovers/ # 4 John Albright graciously supplied the AL schematic. If you compare the AL schematic to the AA you can easily see the differences and where the series notch filters are. The are parallel to the speakers. For instance on the woofer you will see an extra 2.5uh inductor and 30uf capacitor parallel to the woofer. Remove these components. On the squawker you will see an 8uf cap, 2.5uf inductor along with 8 ohm resistor parallel to the squawker. Remove these components. On the tweeter you have a 0.5uf inductor and 2uh cap parallel to the tweeter. Remove these components. After removing these parts you basically have an AA but with a 8uf cap before the T3A autotransformer instead of a 13uf cap. You need the 8uf cap for the T3A transformer instead of a 13UF. If my memory is correct the T3A attenuates the mids 6db whereas the AA attenuates 3db which is a good thing in my room. In fact I even like a touch more attenuation. Bob Crites has also given excellent advice. A prince of a guy in my book who can be relied on for good advice and prices. I have a pair of his 3636 autotransformers and have tried many combinations of crossover networks, probably close to 30 before settling on what I like best. The crossover is the brains of a speaker. What did you do about the 245uH choke on the AA? Did you leave that as a 125uH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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