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Finding a good receiver for Klipsch speakers


Fallenangel

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I am currently looking at getting some Klipsch speakers to create a surround sound system, but I am having some issues trying to figure out what receiver would work good to power the speakers. I read here that under-powering Klipsch speakers will damage them. So what is the rule of thumb, try and find a receiver who's watts per channel are the same as the speaker or higher? Here is what I am looking to get. 

 

2 R-26f as the main. 100/400w

RP440c center channel. 150/600w

2 RP-240s as the rear. 75/300w

R-115sw Subwoofer. 800w

 

And another question, am I over doing it with the 800watt subwoofer? Would movies sound just as good with the 110sw? 

 

Thank you very much for any help I may receive. 

 

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Welcome to the forum with your first post!    :):emotion-19::emotion-21:

 

So what is the rule of thumb, try and find a receiver who's watts per channel are the same as the speaker or higher?

 

That's a good question, and it's been made more difficult by the current model AVR's because IMO they obfuscate their numbers making it confusing to figure out how much power per channel is produced.

 

Take for instance Onkyo is listing power on their AVR's with ONE channel driven.  People will see the high power number and may not bother to read further, and may not understand what the numbers mean.

 

If you can figure out how much power is being used in a typical 5.1 setup you're a better man than I am.  Check these specs on the ONK 656:

 

Power Output: All Channels 170 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1 Channel Driven, FTC) 100 W/Ch (8 Ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.08% THD, 2 Channels Driven, FTC) Dynamic Power 240 W (3 Ohms, Front) 210 W (4 Ohms, Front) 120 W (8 Ohms, Front)

 

 

That being said:  I like to take the highest power rating on the speaker, and increase it by 25% on the AVR for dynamic headroom.  If I needed a 100 wpc AVR then I would get a 125 wpc AVR if I could afford it.

 

 

 

And another question, am I over doing it with the 800watt subwoofer? Would movies sound just as good with the 110sw?

 

A 15" sub with 800 watts would be great for that live effect on movies, it is NOT overdoing it.  I would not recommend a 10" sub unless it was going to be used nearfield like beside your computer desk.

 

Many people these days are going with 18" subs, and even a pair of 15" subs is still not overkill.  The second sub is not for Sound Pressure Level (SPL) but for evening out dead spaces or nulls in the listening room.  A second sub will add about 3 db to the overall loudness.

Edited by wvu80
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Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

 

So for instance, the R-26f has 100 continuous and 400 peak watts. Are you saying to increase the highest watts, 400, by 25% and look for a receiver that can power that? Or use the 100 continuous and increase that, since that will be the main watt usage? I'm basically worried if I get a receiver with watts per channel that are under the lowest of my speaker, it will damage it or make it sound like crap. And also worried if I get a receiver with watts too high, it will blow the speaker. 

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I have blown tweeters in 200 wpc speakers when using a 35 wpc receiver. Basically the receiver is driven to clipping as the speakers were craving power yet the receiver was unable to drive them to loud enough listening levels. I have never over powered any speakers. I have plenty of efficient Klipsch speakers and I power most with my Emotiva 300 wpc XPA-2 amps. Never a problem. There are people in here that will go to the opposite side of the fence though. Because of how efficient the Klipsch are you should only pump a few watts through them. The more power, the more headroom....easy as that. Same goes for the sub. You can always turn a subs gain down if it seems to over power your room, you can never turn the power up if the sub is not putting enough power out.

 

Biggest thing to look for in an AVR is what features you want. Is Atmos critical? 4K? 5.1? 7.1? 9.1? 11.2? Once you narrow down what is most important to you people can help direct you to a competent receiver or pre/pro/amp combo.

 

Do yourself a favor, don't skimp on the AVR if you are investing in good speakers or you will begrudge your decision!

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I'm only doing a 5.1 system. But I think I'm gonna go with a 7.1 receiver that's 4K ready, that way I can upgrade later if I want to. Instead of getting a 5.1 receiver and having to buy a new one if I get a 4K tv or add speakers. So I guess something with 100-125 watts per channel will probably work good. I'm mostly setting up the system for watching movies. Not really gonna use it for a lot of music. 

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I am currently looking at getting some Klipsch speakers to create a surround sound system, but I am having some issues trying to figure out what receiver would work good to power the speakers.
welcome! we can give recommendations but ultimately you have to decide what your ears like. I'm a denon and marantz fan over anything else. huge audyssey fan plus i like the user interface on these more than anything else. 

 

I read here that under-powering Klipsch speakers will damage them. So what is the rule of thumb, try and find a receiver who's watts per channel are the same as the speaker or higher?
heres my advice on that. while it is correct its worse to underpowered than overpower, i suggest buying the feature set you want in a receiver and TRY and make sure you get a high enough model with preouts so you can add an amplifier down the road SHOULD you ever decide you want to. 

 

Here is what I am looking to get.    2 R-26f as the main. 100/400w RP440c center channel. 150/600w 2 RP-240s as the rear. 75/300w R-115sw Subwoofer. 800w
can i ask why all reference premiere EXCEPT the mains? in surrounds sound your center and sub are the most important. however matching the front three is also VERY important. so if i were you and you want to get the 440C then i would get the RP-260F towers and then everything else in your setup would match well. ORRRR if you can get the 450C id still look at the 260 towers and 240 surrounds with the 15" sub. thats a killer setup. i have a friend that has the same setup and its awesome at his place. 

 

And another question, am I over doing it with the 800watt subwoofer? Would movies sound just as good with the 110sw? 
there is no overdoing it with subwoofers. i have 8 18's subs in a 12x23 theater room. Movies WILL NOT sound the same with the 110. it will struggle. i have owned the 110 and 112 subs and they both while OK sounding are very output limited. they were sold very quickly.  
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  • If you read reviews of receivers, look for lab or "bench" data on what the reviewer measured as the power in watts per channel, with all channels operating.  That's what counts, rather that the fudge the manufacturers put out.

I, too, like Marantz, but look at reviewers' power tests.

I, too, love Audyssey.  Audyssey XT32 is better than XT.  Don't go lower than XT. 

Power needs go up fast.  A 3 dB increase needs double the power in watts.  Did you tell us how big your room is?  For example, although the extraordinarily efficient Klipschorn puts out 105 dB at 1 watt at 1 Meter, it needs 6.3 watts to reach that same 105 dB at normal listening distance in a 3,000 cu. foot room, and 63 watts (peak) to reach the 115  dB occasional peaks PWK says you need (for a few milliseconds) (Dope from Hope vol 16, No. 1).  Most Klipsch speakers are not that efficient, although they are more efficient than most on the market.  That being said, a good 100 w. p. c. -- All Channels Operating -- receiver will probably be O.K., since you will be using a powerful subwoofer.  THX, Audyssey, etc, all consider the full scale (maximum Sound Pressure Level) needs of a movie system for peaks to be 105 dB through each speaker, except for the subwoofer which needs to be able to produce 115 dB with a full scale signal.  If you set up your system to be calibrated for reference level, you will get the SPL the filmmakers intended.  Audyssey will help you do just that.  In small rooms, it sounds less annoying about 5 dB lower.  THX has a chart for that.

Edited by garyrc
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I was originally looking at the RP-260f but later changed my mind. I can get the R-26f for a lot cheaper than the RP-260 and it doesn't have a lot of difference in the power. And I don't see the difference between the RP-450c and the RP-440c other than the price. They both have the same exact Watts. 150/600. I have not said what the room size is, because I will mostly likely be moving soon and not sure what the front room will look like.

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I was originally looking at the RP-260f but later changed my mind
bad choice

 

I can get the R-26f for a lot cheaper than the RP-260 and it doesn't have a lot of difference in the power.
power is not a spec you even need to worry about. the r-26 is best buy junk. aluminum tweeter. the reference premiere is a huge step up.

 

And I don't see the difference between the RP-450c and the RP-440c other than the price.
bigger horn and bigger drivers equals bigger sound. for not much extra money. 100$ extra if i remember right 

 

@MetropolisLakeOutfitters can help you out. he is a dealer and can possibly get you a great on the set

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The best way to buy anything is......pick a max budget and try everything you can in that range. Dont buy based on what you read, thats just opinion. Suggestions are fine for consideration, not for buying.

 

 I 've auditioned many avrs over the years, some truly awful. Few were great ,but there are some. You never know what combination it will take to suit your ears. Heck.....you may not really care as long as it sounds ok. I only enjoy listening when it sounds spectacular. I can only be satisfied when I know I have the best sound for the money spent for my ears. If anyone tells you watts is most important, forget em. If anyone tells you avrs all sound alike you can be positive they have very limited knowledge of audio. Again just opinion but from a very satisfied, no regrets listener.

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Lot's of great advice above! ^^^

 

I think everyone is giving the same advice as well.  More power is better than less, and even if your speaker is rated at 100 wpc if you get an AVR rated for 150 wpc that is a good thing.  And buying an AVR for the important features is much more important than a few rated watts of power.  Almost any modern AVR with 125 wpc will run a KLIPSCH based multi-speaker setup with plenty of gusto.

 

Scrappy ^^^ mentioned that the Reference Premier is the Good Stuff.  You'll never regret buying quality.

+++

 

If you want specific AVR suggestions, you may ask.  That is where I will not be helpful because I don't have as much experience as others here.  There are a lot of people who have run the same or similar setup and can give you Make and Model suggestions within whatever budget you have.

Edited by wvu80
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The price of the Best Buy stuff is appealing to many, but the reference premier sounds much nicer.  If nothing else, the tweeter is titanium vs. aluminum on the entry level stuff which is a big difference.  Also better crossovers, and a little more debatable is the new silicon molded horn.  The end result is much smoother and pleasant especially at higher volumes.  

 

As for the receiver, I would say to buy the nicest Denon you can afford.  The new models are about to come out so I'd wait a month or two if possible but otherwise it mostly revolves around your budget.  Denon has nice amps in their receivers.  Otherwise you're mainly paying for the functionality.  Hard to recommend a specific model without knowing the budget.  Denon has everything from $300 to $3,000 units.  

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To the OP, if you do end up going with the Best Buy level Klipsch speakers do your wallet a favor and wait for Black Friday. For the last four years all of their Klipsch speakers go on sale half price for that weekend. Also, watch Frys.com as they have some really good deals on that level Klipsch as well.

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Thanks again to everybody, all this advice and suggestions have been really helpful. I have no problem doing lots of research on a good receiver before I start buying the rest of the system. That was the main issue I was having. Never had a nice system before and I want to get it right. I think i'll spend a little more and go with my original plan and get the Klipsch RP-260f, especially since everything else is going to be reference premiere. So i'll do more research into a good receiver. 

Thanks again to everybody. 

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I think you'll be glad you went with the true ref line. As to a receiver, are you movie or music or both, it makes a difference. If it's mostly movies just look for the best features in the price range. If it's music you'll have to work, you get less features in musical avrs of similar price. Good luck.

Edited by Fish
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Many of us in this hobby started with a full 5.1 set because it was cheap and had the same watt rating as the higher line.  Many of us quickly found ourselves spending more money to upgrade to better speakers.  Buy quality and not have the bitter taste of what if.  Quality components don't loose as much value over time.

 

Side note, what's wrong with aluminum tweeters, lol.  I've kept my Icon VF 35 for five years and still like them.  I like the RF 7's much more. :huh:

Edited by derrickdj1
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After a bad experience with a stereo receiver, I'm a bit biased against them as a whole. I bought a Yamaha a few years ago that said, on the spec sheet, 100w per channel. It was the most miserable-sounding distortion box I'd ever heard, and it could barely push medium volume on a pair of 95db Synergy towers before distorting tremendously. I later found out that a lot of these units are measured unrealistically at a single frequency or other means like that; it'd be like if you measured your car's MPG at 40mph in top gear, with the interior stripped out, while going downhill. The ensuing number would be worthless. And as others have pointed out, the numbers are sometimes confusing about how many driven channels it refers to.

 

One good way to ensure an upgrade path would be to make sure your chosen AVR has pre-outs. That would mean that you could add separate power amps later and achieve drastically better sound. You could do this gradually, too: You could get a dedicated power amp for your mains and center to begin with, for example. Or you could start with your AVR (with pre-outs) and get a full 5-channel power amp later.

 

Another path, which is what I'm doing, would be to focus your budget on the electronics and the two front speakers and add the other speakers as your finances allow. You could find a very nice power amp and surround preamp now and have a 2.1ch home theater, which will sound incredible, and add the other speakers as you see fit. In my case, I have an Adcom GFA-535 (65w) stereo power amp and a GFA-7607 7-channel amp (125w), as well as plenty of speakers. Once I find a suitable HT preamp that meets my needs, I'm going to use the GFA-535 for my mains, then the GFA-7607 for all other speakers.

 

If there's anything I've learned, it's not to neglect the importance of good electronics. I use my 2.1 system for music and video games, and while I'm not playing in surround, there's nothing like being able to experience the full crack of game music and sound effects without compression or distortion.

Edited by chriswhotakesphotos
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I am kind of bias as you can see with my signature but I have had great luck with Emotiva and Sherbourn gear. I would put my Sherbourn SR-120 against about any receiver on the market. I would also state that this same receiver can hang with my separates which contains a 200wpc x 5 XPA-5 and my 300wpc XPA-2. If you don't care about Atmos and you don't need a ton of gimmicky stuff you might be really happy with this 73 lb monster of a receiver. Straight forward with a true bench tested 125wpc for the front three channels and 75wpc for the other four channels. Clarity and detail I have never heard from a receiver before that puts you in the center of the action. My old Yamaha RX-V2700 with 130wpc distorted and died out about one third the volume as this Sherbourn. (I own four of them by the way) There are a couple making the rounds on Ebay if you are interested. Keep an eye out as you will see them from time to time for under $500...which is a steal!

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To answer Fish.

    My main reason for all of this setup is movies. I love movies. I have about 1,000 DVD's and I would love to watch them in my front room sounding like a movie theater. Or as close as I can get it. But finding a receiver with Bluetooth would be nice so I have the option to listen to music as well. I am going with Klipsch speakers because they have the reputation of being really good, nice sounding speakers.

 

My main question out of all of this, was if I needed a receiver with the same WPC as the speakers, or if it needed to be higher, and if so, then how high was too high. I don't want to get nice speakers and risk blowing them. I don't EVER plan on blasting my system, be it with a movie or music. I just don't do that.

 

I am also having some trouble figuring out if a receiver with Audyssey is as good or better than a receiver that is THX certified. So far I have read that having Audyssey is better than having THX. I think I have finally found a good receiver for what I need. The Onkyo TX-NR747. It has 175wpc and I can get it for $487. It is THX certified and has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.  The main speakers I want, Klipsch RP-260f have 125/500 watts. I thing the receiver will make them sound really good and it's not underpowered so I don't have to worry about damaging them. And it has a lot of connections on the back, HDMI for the Blu-ray and all the other connections so I can hook up all my old game systems, ie, Nintendo, Super NES, Sega, Nintendo 64, Playstation. Plus it is a 7.2 channel, so I have the option later to add more speakers if I want to.

 

But even after all this, I'm still going to do more research to see if I can find an even better receiver. I'm not in a hurry to just get whatever I can and through a system together. I want this system to last AND sound awesome!

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