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Amp for Klipschorn set up


hoepki

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Hi, I have 2 Klipschorns, a Lascala and a Klipsch sub that I would like to listen to my vinyl on and also run a home theater set up through.  I am at a loss as to what to use for power?  I don't have a lot to spend, trying to stay under $1K, used is an option also if needed.  Anyone have a good solution or set up like this to help me get started in the right direction?  Thank you!  

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Since you are using a sub, how will you connect it?  High level inputs could be used if you don't go the typical avr route.  You need something to amplify 3 speakers which cuts out most tube and integrated amps.  How large is the room and seating distance from the speakers?  A good used higher end avr may be the way to go.

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On 8/6/2016 at 5:12 PM, derrickdj1 said:

Since you are using a sub, how will you connect it?  High level inputs could be used if you don't go the typical avr route.  You need something to amplify 3 speakers which cuts out most tube and integrated amps.  How large is the room and seating distance from the speakers?  A good used higher end avr may be the way to go.

I currently am running it all through an old Kenwood KR V7080 receiver.  Don't like the sound of the Klipschorns I bought recently and just finished refurbishing.  They are 1986 speakers and may need a little updating but I just got done with the fabric and cabinets so I wanted to finally listen to them and see what else might be needed to be done.  Thought maybe a better amp.  Not sure the best way to listen to my vinyl and use them in a home theater, thanks!  

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You have a large room.  The speakers might work better on the 22 ft. wall.  Thirty feet apart is far for good imaging.  Also, sitting more that 15 ft from the speakers let's the room have a big part in what your are hearing.  It's OK to use the same speaker for music and HT.  A good avr could improve things especialy if it has some room correction.  Last week, I listed a good Pioneer Elite avr in the Garage sale section.  We do have a few guys using Khorns with Pioneer Elite avr's.  A lot of the guys use tube amps with the Khorns's also.

 

I don't own Khorn and can't make recommendation on upgrades for the Khorns.  I'm sure some more knowledgable forum members will chime in on this thread and offer some help.

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Three-channels, music + home theater, and phono for under $1,000 is going to be a pretty tall order.  Used is not only going to be your best option, it will probably be your only option.

 

While you can go the simple route and just get an AVR that has a phono section, I don't think that will bring you the best sound.  I prefer vacuum tubes but don't think you can get all you're asking for in vacuum tubes with that budget.

 

Here is what I would suggest:

 

First off, get yourself a used, inexpensive pre-amp/processor.  To keep the price down, look for an older one that doesn't have all the fancy processing features such as Atmos and doesn't even have HDMI video connections.  The very good old ones (15 years old or so) will still sound great, just won't have the latest features (which you really don't need).  I don't think there is going to be any vacuum tube options for a pre-amp section (as you'd likely need both a tube pre-amp and a pre/pro since I'm unaware of any vacuum tube pre/pros) that will fit your budget so you're probably stuck with solid state.  I have a Rotel in very nice condition that I picked up used and have never actually used myself that might fit the bill if you are interested.

 

For amplification, you're going to need three channels of power.  Vacuum tubes would sound best, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to find three-channels for something in the $600-700 range.  It may be possible, and worthwhile looking for, however. In lieu of vacuum tubes, you can find some nice three-channel solid state amps.  One that I would recommend would be the Classe CAV-75. It can be configured for 3, 4, 5, or six channels.  I have seen them sell for $650-800.  I like Classe solid state a lot for Klipsch heritage.  Get the Classe and the only upgrade you'll be able to make later on in my opinion would be to move to vacuum tubes.  Acurus also makes some good three-channel amps at lower price points.  While I haven't heard them, I know others here own and have recommended them highly.

 

For phono, you'll be unlikely to find a pre/pro with a built in phono section so you'll need to find an inexpensive external unit.  You didn't mention if you have MM or MC, but one that I would recommend that should fit within your budget on the used side would be one from Creek.  The OBH-8 is for MM and there is an OBH-15 that will do MM and MC.

 

P.S.  I agree that the Khorns should be along the 22-foot wall.

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First things first. When you say you refurb'd the KHorns what do you mean? Just cosmetics? Do all the drivers work? What do you not like about the sound? There must be a reason you acquired them. With 30' between L and R you will probably need a center channel (the LaScala)even just for '2 channel' listening of vinyl/CDs to fill the 'hole in the middle', just MHO.

That Kenwood should be able to drive the KHorns just fine as long as there is nothing wrong with it. When your listening to 2 channel do you know if the center channel puts out any signal? Is its level adjustable independent of the L and R?

I am looking for a 'Dope from Hope' paper that explains the center channel but alas all the 'Dope from Hope' stuff is gone or dang hard to find. I'm going to ask about this in another thread.

 Welcome to the forum

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Look at Denon, Onkyo, Integra and Yamaha A/V Receivers, You may need to shop used. 

 

Do your Khorns have Type AK crossovers?  If they do, you will want to upgrade to later versions, AK-3, -4, -5.  You can build your own.  Using good, but not stupendous components will make them affordable.  If you don't have Type AKs, the 30 year old capacitors may have gone out of spec, so refreshing them will help. 

 

Please post pics!

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Unless there are other factors, go with the narrow wall.  You didn't mention how "good" of movie experience you're after, but I would not go with an amp that I intended to watch movies on without HDMI.  It's just the reality of today's technology.  Also with a room that size, what is your intended size with a screen?  Big sound on a small screen will not be satisfying.   I'd look for a closeout on a better 5.1 AVR that you can select to use the center channel when listening to music and many come with a phono input. 

 
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I appreciate all the great advise!  I will do some research and see what I can find from all the suggestions.  I really don't have a choice on the speaker locations.  I can't really put them on the short wall.  The room just isn't built right to do so, I am pretty much stuck with the current set up.  If I can post a picture/video of the room I will do so and they you will see what I mean.  Thanks!  Right now I just have a 50" TV and am more interested in making sure the music is the best it can sound and then then movie experience.  In response to Babadono yes, I have either a LaScala or a Belle for a center channel and it is adjustable.  I also have just worked on the cabinet and replaced the fabric, nothing touch internally yet.  I believe everything still works, just looking at what to replace if needed to bring the best sound out that I can.  Thanks, I'll be back with more. 

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My first foray into HT was with a similar setup. I found the Pioneer AVRs with the "D3" amps to be little short of outstanding. If I had your budget I would find a nice used Pioneer Elite unit, get a decent phono preamp and call it a day.

 

Though if you are like the rest of us you will never quit fiddling with it.

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On 8/19/2016 at 0:00 AM, JMON said:

Can you please explain your rationale?

As I said, " It's just the reality of today's technology."  If you still want to go component wiring, that would be a choice I wouldn't make,  Today most Bluray players are HDMI.  Your experience may vary. 

 

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On 8/24/2016 at 8:19 PM, billybobg said:

As I said, " It's just the reality of today's technology."  If you still want to go component wiring, that would be a choice I wouldn't make,  Today most Bluray players are HDMI.  Your experience may vary. 

 

Assumed you were referring to HDMI video switching but wasn't sure there was some other reason.  Yes, I agree using HDMI would be best.  However, the solution would be to connect the HDMI directly from the source to the TV/projector and bypass the AVR or Pre/Pro altogether.  Yes, this means you have to press two buttons each time you switch video sources, but if sound quality is more important than convenience, this is the better way to go as an HDMI-equipped AVR or Pre/Pro will consume a much larger chunk of the available budget leaving less available for better amplification.

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8 hours ago, JMON said:

Assumed you were referring to HDMI video switching but wasn't sure there was some other reason.  Yes, I agree using HDMI would be best.  However, the solution would be to connect the HDMI directly from the source to the TV/projector and bypass the AVR or Pre/Pro altogether.  Yes, this means you have to press two buttons each time you switch video sources, but if sound quality is more important than convenience, this is the better way to go as an HDMI-equipped AVR or Pre/Pro will consume a much larger chunk of the available budget leaving less available for better amplification.

I'm not sure if this is so true.  A decent avr can be just as good as using a preamp. Due to size of some of the avr companies, they are able to includes somethings that smaller companies just can't without their product getting really expensive due to economies of scale.  You can also hook up and outboard amp to an avr.  A decent avr connect via HDMI can basically run the show and is the perfered way of connecting thing if and avr is being used.  This hold true for movies and TV.  Music may be debateable IMHO.

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On 8/11/2016 at 3:07 PM, babadono said:

 

I am looking for a 'Dope from Hope' paper that explains the center channel but alas all the 'Dope from Hope' stuff is gone or dang hard to find. I'm going to ask about this in another thread.

 

Dope From Hope  <- look here.  The articles you want are volume 14 no. 4, volume 15 no 2, and volume 15 no 6.  There may be others, I didn't look.

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