Theater planning thread

[holtrp]

Hey guys. It's been a while. My wife finally got a job locally where she should be able to stay indefinitely so moving is finally off the table for us. So between that and now with one in Kindergarten and the other starting preschool, I am actually seriously contemplating my full room remodel. 

 

I have two sketches of where I am now and where I am headed and looking for some advice from all the pros on here that have been there, done that. I am not planning on buying a ton of gear right away, I will add all newer stuff over time as it is always more fun for me that way to incrementally add gear rather than all at once. What I have sketched in the second file is sort of where I am hoping to end up eventually. So right now I am looking for ideas on 'must haves' / 'don't try this stuff' for the room itself. 

 

Basically, I need to remove all the carpet / drywall to run wires, remove an open banister on the stairs, replace it with a wall. Add a wall to build a room for all the AV gear to sit in.

 

Some of the basics I am doing will be a 20 amp circuit to the AV room (Is this enough?).

Green glue x2 drywall for sound dampening. (Is there a better solution?)

Seems like Dolby and DTS have different ideas for speaker placement for the new standards. I can't decide between front wide & high vs Atmos above the listening position or some combination. Or maybe just get the atmos enabled speakers and fire them at the ceiling. Figure I will just wire for all and wait and see. Though, 11 speakers is all the pre/pro I will be getting into for the foreseeable future. 

Canned lighting? In my last place, I had a bunch of rattles but they were dealt with easily enough. I kind of like the recessed lighting and keeping stuff off the sidewalls.

I am planning on leaving the windows in place, blacking them out and hanging a custom drape that will run about 1/8 up the side walls of the front of the room and then along the front wall to cover the side window and walk out basement door. 

Not sure if I should add doors to both the AV room and the rest of the basement to isolate this room or not. Obviously it would cost more. Sliding doors might vibrate, Probably thinking solid core with weather stripping would work. 

 

What else should I be considering? Power outlets to the chairs? Basically, I just want to solicit as many ideas as possible and have a very solid plan before tearing into it.  

 

Thanks guys!

[derrickdj1]

What is the total cu ft measurement for the HT room.  Why you are wiring, It cost  very little to put in several 20 amp lines a breakers.  Just get rid of two 15 amp breaker and convert them to two double 20 amp breakers.  If the room is large, shot for more subs or consider TT.  Atmos is nice and can easily covert to Neo X for the extra speakers.  You will need a good avr for atmos.  Check out Marantz and Pioneer Elite.

[holtrp]

I am actually out of town right now and I forgot what the measurements are. I want to say 2500-3000' x3 though... so not too big. But, I mean, 8 18" sealed Daytons? That should do the trick right? I guess I could always co locate and do 16 18" daytons or swap over to Marty boxes. 

 

I am thinking Marantz 8802A is the best fit for me. 

[derrickdj1]

You will be more than OK with eight 18!  I would get a few more 20 amp outlets.  The guy took two of my 15 amp breakers out and put and replaced them with double 20 amp breakers.  I think for four outlet, wire pull and breaker change was under $200 if memory serves me right.

[holtrp]

What kind of speaker wire are you running in wall? I was thinking 12 awg 4 connector CL2 or 3 for the subs (in case I want to co-locate / do 16 18" subs at some point). Probably 14 awg 4 connector to the rest of the locations, in case I decide to switch up speakers or want to biamp down the road. 

 

Also, I have been searching and searching on AVS forum and can't seem to find anything... is there an easy way to convert the PE flat pack 4 cu ft sealed enclosure into a Marty? The output is more than enough... for now... but I am just wondering if it can be done or if anyone has tried. I still haven't moved them around to asymmetrical locations in the room yet. Planning on getting rid of a bunch of clutter in the basement in the next few weeks, which should free me up keep moving forward towards the remodel. 

 

Tough to find a contractor around here. I have contacted 3 outfits and no one has gotten back to me yet. I might be on my own on this remodel, which is a bummer because it will take longer. Should be cheap though if I do all the demo and run all the wires on my own. I might just have to do it piecemeal with an independent electrician, carpenter, drywall guy and trim guy. 

[derrickdj1]

There is no way to convert the flat pack to a micro, mini or marty.  They are not overly difficult to build.  Before you double up from 8 to 16 subs, consider just switch out to ported subs if you need or want more output.  But, the easy way is to just get some tacile transducers, (TT's).  They will add more tactile response that 4-5 subs.  I've got a heck of a lot wooferage and the tactile transducers still add quite a bit on top of all the subs.

 

If the TT's are set up right they will feel very natural and just an extension of the wooferage.  I got the in-wall speaker wire off Amazon.  They have several brand that have the extra coating for in-wall instillation.  The hard part of planning is not know what you may want to change in the future.  Once things are in the walls, a bit more work to change up which is why I suggest the TT's.  You will never need to want more tactile response from the 8 subs.

 

I switched from the SC 35 to SC 99 that has 2 sub outs an separate EQ.  This would be great to EQ the rear subs separate from the from but, I would have to run another sub cable thru the wall and ceiling.  I'm just to lazzy for now to bother, lol.

[holtrp]

I have always thought of transducers as sort of cheating and gimmicky somehow. Perhaps I will wire for them just in case. I have just accepted the fact that more subwoofers is a forgone conclusion for me. I am already committed to wiring for 16 of them, who knows if I ever get there or not. 

 

That is a bummer about the Marty. Maybe with the kids in school I would have enough time to build them on my own. It can't be that hard. 

 

From what I can tell, 10-12 awg wire should be enough for in wall for the subs. So long as it is rated CL2, 3 or CMP. I actually have 5.1 wired in the walls currently from the previous owner, but he didn't run rated wire and everything is terminated near the ceiling (I guess because his wife liked $25 Sony satilite speakers opposed to anything on the floor). 

 

In our last house, I had it built and had to go back to run a HDMI and two extra surround channels with in the first 2 years. This time around, I will probably have $1000 in copper alone in the walls. Lesson learned on that front. 

[derrickdj1]

I wanted more low end since I am in a large open space.  I originally was think more sealed and then switched up to convert to vented subs.  A couple of large vented subs will have more output 15 Hz and up.  A vented sub will have around 9-10 db more output than a sealed sub.  Nine to 10 db is equal to three sealed subs.  If I knew about LLT vented subs, 4-6 of them for my room and call it a day.

 

The Marty and Mini are not that hard to build and the Dayton Reference and PA 460 work well in them.  This would allow you to use the drivers you alread have and not need additional amps.  Just a thought.

 

To give you an ideal of the Marty size and LLT, hear are a couple of pic's.  The Marty is 11-12 cu ft. and tuned to around 17 Hz and LLT is roughly 17 cu ft. tuned to 14.5 Hz and only needs 1000 watts to reach Xmax.  You also don't need a hpf with the LLT.  Both are excellent is SQ.

[Scrappydue]

dude i can't imagine you needing more than 8 subs. there is a ton of guys around kansas city with 8 subs in sealed enclosures and they all have bigger rooms than me. one of them room is 26x28 or so. thats huge. two of my rooms and his 8 is STUPID if he wants it to be. he is the sole reason i got rid of the ultras and went DIY. my 4 were plenty. my 8 is now so effortless. 

[holtrp]

10 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

I wanted more low end since I am in a large open space.  I originally was think more sealed and then switched up to convert to vented subs.  A couple of large vented subs will have more output 15 Hz and up.  A vented sub will have around 9-10 db more output than a sealed sub.  Nine to 10 db is equal to three sealed subs.  If I knew about LLT vented subs, 4-6 of them for my room and call it a day.

 

The Marty and Mini are not that hard to build and the Dayton Reference and PA 460 work well in them.  This would allow you to use the drivers you alread have and not need additional amps.  Just a thought.

 

To give you an ideal of the Marty size and LLT, hear are a couple of pic's.  The Marty is 11-12 cu ft. and tuned to around 17 Hz and LLT is roughly 17 cu ft. tuned to 14.5 Hz and only needs 1000 watts to reach Xmax.  You also don't need a hpf with the LLT.  Both are excellent is SQ.

 

Good god those things are insane. I think I would go with the Marty cubes. 3x the output does have some appeal though. Bass is just one of those things I never seem to be content with, no matter how good it sounds. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Multiple thoughts:

 

1. IF you really are going with that much firepower on subs, I'd run more than one 20 amp circuit if you're doing one anyway.  Put the subs on at least one dedicated circuit.  

 

2. If you're building the screen out that much anyway, try to ditch the horizontal center if possible and get an A/T screen with at least the center behind it.  This wasn't explained so I don't know what you've got in mind.  Absolutely ditch the horizontal center with the second layout.  No reason for that rc-64 there.  Get a third matching tower.  

 

3. No reason for that AV rack to be there, little shiny blinky things is distracting.  If you're wiring stuff from scratch anyway try to put it behind you or in a closet.  Second/new drawing is better but I'd still try to move it behind you if possible.  

 

4. Unless you just like the look, you'd be better off distributing those subs around the room if you keep that many.  One in each wall midpoint is about the best you can get in terms of smooth response seat to seat.  Setting them up like this will look cool but you'll still have modal issues.  Second layout is much better in my opinion.  Same deal though, you'd be better off simply having one in each wall midpoint rather than 3 up front 3 behind then one on each side.  

 

[Scrappydue]

28 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

Multiple thoughts:

 

1. IF you really are going with that much firepower on subs, I'd run more than one 20 amp circuit if you're doing one anyway.  Put the subs on at least one dedicated circuit.  

 

2. If you're building the screen out that much anyway, try to ditch the horizontal center if possible and get an A/T screen with at least the center behind it.  This wasn't explained so I don't know what you've got in mind.  Absolutely ditch the horizontal center with the second layout.  No reason for that rc-64 there.  Get a third matching tower.  

 

3. No reason for that AV rack to be there, little shiny blinky things is distracting.  If you're wiring stuff from scratch anyway try to put it behind you or in a closet.  Second/new drawing is better but I'd still try to move it behind you if possible.  

 

4. Unless you just like the look, you'd be better off distributing those subs around the room if you keep that many.  One in each wall midpoint is about the best you can get in terms of smooth response seat to seat.  Setting them up like this will look cool but you'll still have modal issues.  Second layout is much better in my opinion.  Same deal though, you'd be better off simply having one in each wall midpoint rather than 3 up front 3 behind then one on each side.  

 

he said the two sketches are of now (first one) and where he wants to go with it (second one)

[holtrp]

8 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

Multiple thoughts:

 

1. IF you really are going with that much firepower on subs, I'd run more than one 20 amp circuit if you're doing one anyway.  Put the subs on at least one dedicated circuit.  

 

2. If you're building the screen out that much anyway, try to ditch the horizontal center if possible and get an A/T screen with at least the center behind it.  This wasn't explained so I don't know what you've got in mind.  

 

3. No reason for that AV rack to be there, little shiny blinky things is distracting.  If you're wiring stuff from scratch anyway try to put it behind you or in a closet.  Second/new drawing is better but I'd still try to move it behind you if possible.  Absolutely ditch the horizontal center with the second layout.  No reason for that rc-64 there.  Get a third matching tower.  

 

4. Unless you just like the look, you'd be better off distributing those subs around the room if you keep that many.  One in each wall midpoint is about the best you can get in terms of smooth response seat to seat.  Setting them up like this will look cool but you'll still have modal issues.  Second layout is much better in my opinion.  Same deal though, you'd be better off simply having one in each wall midpoint rather than 3 up front 3 behind then one on each side.  

 

Yeah, sorry it wasn't very clear in the original post.

 

1. Definitely going to run one or more 20 amp circuits. The wall behind where all the gear is going to be is the crawlspace so I should be able to get a full breaker box installed in that area and then short runs to independent outlets from there. I have read quite a bit in the past few days about 20 amp circuits. Right now I am running everything off one 15 and have tripped it a couple times so I absolutely have to upgrade. The main difference I have read about says that a 20 amp circuit requires 12 AWG wire per code where as a 15 amp circuit goes with 14 AWG wire. I did read one guy that mentioned using 10 AWG for all 20 amp circuits / subs and plugging everything into the wall. I will probably just stick with 12 though, I can't imagine needed 10 AWG for any real performance / safety reasons. 

 

2. I was planning on keeping the RC-64 and setting it on top of the front middle sub with the little riser screw angling it slightly upward towards the main listening position. For the time being, I am not very concerned with AT screen or lacking in the center channel. Perhaps down the road I will upgrade my front sound stage and get something a little bigger. I even considered getting another RC-64 and splitting the signal.

 

3. The pictures are confusing. The first one shows how the room is currently set up, the second shows how it will be set up with the AV rack fully isolated in a small room behind a wall adjacent to the crawlspace with woofers laid out asemmetrically a the mid point and 1/4 midpoint on front and rear and mid point on the side walls.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Yeah I skimmed the first post and missed the before/after statement at first.  Rough weekend.  

[derrickdj1]

5 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

Multiple thoughts:

 

1. IF you really are going with that much firepower on subs, I'd run more than one 20 amp circuit if you're doing one anyway.  Put the subs on at least one dedicated circuit.  

 

2. If you're building the screen out that much anyway, try to ditch the horizontal center if possible and get an A/T screen with at least the center behind it.  This wasn't explained so I don't know what you've got in mind.  Absolutely ditch the horizontal center with the second layout.  No reason for that rc-64 there.  Get a third matching tower.  

 

3. No reason for that AV rack to be there, little shiny blinky things is distracting.  If you're wiring stuff from scratch anyway try to put it behind you or in a closet.  Second/new drawing is better but I'd still try to move it behind you if possible.  

 

4. Unless you just like the look, you'd be better off distributing those subs around the room if you keep that many.  One in each wall midpoint is about the best you can get in terms of smooth response seat to seat.  Setting them up like this will look cool but you'll still have modal issues.  Second layout is much better in my opinion.  Same deal though, you'd be better off simply having one in each wall midpoint rather than 3 up front 3 behind then one on each side.  

 

 

 

What's wrong with little blinking lights, lol.

[holtrp]

5 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

 

 

What's wrong with little blinking lights, lol.

 

We have been in this place for right at 5 years now. The wiring set up is absolutely horrible. I have my HDMI to my projector and speaker wire to the rear surround ziptied and stapled to the ceiling and just about everything else is exposed. All this coming from our last home where everything was concealed in an AV closet and all wiring was run through the crawlspace and walls. It is pretty much an embarrassment (even though it really sounds quite good). It reminds me of my set up in my first apartment, 15 years ago. 

 

I had been ignoring it with the thought of possibly moving. Now that we are definitely staying, it is time to get this squared away. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

55 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

 

 

What's wrong with little blinking lights, lol.

 

Some people (McIntosh users) apparently like it.  Me, I want the room to disappear.  Movies are straight up escapism to me, I don't want any blinky thingy's bringing me back to reality when I'm lost in one.  

[holtrp]

1 minute ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

Some people (McIntosh users) apparently like it.  Me, I want the room to disappear.  Movies are straight up escapism to me, I don't want any blinky thingy's bringing me back to reality when I'm lost in one.  

 

Agreed...

 

I think you can divide it up by weather you value form over function or function over form. I guess if I had huge $$$ wrapped up in McIntosh gear, I might want it prominently displayed in my home rather than hidden away. 

[fuzzydog]

This thread may get more interest if it were in the Home Theater forum section.