Possibly Willing to Trade RF-7ii DeanG Xovers for Stock Xovers

[Youthman]

Hey guys, not totally sure I want to do this but I thought I would put out a feeler.  Long story short, I've had these installed for almost 2.5 years.  The DeanG Xovers are known to Tame the High's in the original RF-7's as well as refine the sound.  I had never heard any DeanG mods myself but Dean offered to mod mine at no charge in exchange for me figuring out how to safely remove the RF-7ii crossovers and document the process as well as the re-installation process. 

 

Since I had my first stereo, I've always boosted the treble as my ears prefer the brighter sound (which is probably why I love horns so much).  Not sure if this is just preference or if I actually have hearing loss (can't remember last time I was tested). There was about a month between me sending my stock Xovers to Dean before getting them back so I wasn't able to do a direct A/B comparison.  I shared what I heard in this 27 page DeanG RF-7ii (From Start to Finish) thread, I shared what my ears heard shortly after I got them back (although some tried to claim what I was hearing was tainted because I got them for free).  I would like to think my character and integrity has been consistent since I joined this forum.  Needless to say, I do like the way they sound, I just miss the top end that they had originally. 

 

The only other pair of RF-7ii I've heard since upgrading my crossovers is Wakejunkies and I've never felt that his were too bright (even at extreme volume levels).  I did an A/B/C comparison between the RF-7, RF-83 and RF-7ii and concluded that the 7's are brightest, 83's are most laid back and 7ii are right in between.  During the comparison, my ears preferred the high's in the RF-7ii the best (bass and midrange were pretty much the same). 

 

Ideally, I really wish I could get a pair of stock RF-7ii Crossovers before trading so I could swap to hear how they compare within a short period of time, or even A/B with one speaker with stock and one speaker with DeanG xover to see directly how they compare side by side but I realize this isn't likely.   

 

Anyways, if there is someone that feels the RF-7ii is slightly too bright for their taste and wants to smooth out the top end, send me a PM and we can go from there.

[moray james]

first of all I cannot believe that it's nine hours and you have not found a home for your custom crossovers. Second why would you not simply adjust your tone controls? That's why you bought and paid for them. All the fuss and trouble to switch back to inferior higher distortion parts when you can electronically make fine adjustments in spectral balance in a second? 

[TasDom]

6 minutes ago, moray james said:

first of all I cannot believe that it's nine hours and you have not found a home for your custom crossovers. Second why would you not simply adjust your tone controls? That's why you bought and paid for them. All the fuss and trouble to switch back to inferior higher distortion parts when you can electronically make fine adjustments in spectral balance in a second? 

I've been contemplating it for 9 hours. 

[moray james]

knowledge always comes at a cost. wondering is the stuff that is used to make frustration.

[Schu]

no outright purchase price?

just curious.

[Youthman]

6 hours ago, moray james said:

Second why would you not simply adjust your tone controls?

I spent some time today and played with the treble, toe in as well as distance and they sound really nice. 

 

6 hours ago, moray james said:

All the fuss and trouble to switch back to inferior higher distortion parts when you can electronically make fine adjustments in spectral balance in a second? 

I'm not very "technical" when it comes to audio, especially in the area of crossovers.  I also know my ears are not what I would consider as anywhere near "critical".  My 2ch listening is casual at best.  I RARELY sit down in front of my 2ch setup....now that I think about it, there are often several weeks, if not over a month that goes by that I don't even turn that system on.  So I guess I'm probably more like 90% HT, 10% Music.

 

5 hours ago, moray james said:

knowledge always comes at a cost. wondering is the stuff that is used to make frustration.

Why can't we just leave our systems be and enjoy what we have.  LOL.  I guess I was just "wondering" if my ears would prefer the original crossovers better.  There is a difference in sound, and in my simplicity, all I can explain is the high's are not as bright as they originally were.  I can adjust the Treble up and yes, it's crisp and clear. 

 

I think at this point, the best thing to do is to be patient and wait until I can find a pair of original crossovers or have the opportunity to buy or borrow a set of RF-7ii's so I can demo them side by side before considering giving up my DeanG Crossovers.  Until then....I'll just have to wonder. 

 

 

[Youthman]

4 hours ago, Schu said:

no outright purchase price?

just curious.

I wasn't considering selling outright.  I got them for free and was considering just an even trade with someone.  I believe Dean charges around $350 for them if anyone is interested in purchasing a set for themselves.

[Grizzog]

...this is tempting


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[Youthman]

10 minutes ago, Grizzog said:

...this is tempting

 

I removed the temptation. 

 

4 hours ago, Youthman said:

I think at this point, the best thing to do is to be patient and wait until I can find a pair of original crossovers or have the opportunity to buy or borrow a set of RF-7ii's so I can demo them side by side before considering giving up my DeanG Crossovers.  Until then....I'll just have to wonder. 

 

[Grizzog]

I disregarded that post in the hopes that you forgot you wrote it. Tell you what, bring your 7s over, we'll do an A/B. CT can't be too far for a good audio comparison. [emoji4]


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[Youthman]

LOL....I honestly wish I knew someone nearby that had RF-7ii as I would love to take mine over to demo next to theirs. 

[Deang]

Why not just buy some stock crossovers from Klipsch? Call parts and give them your serial numbers. 

 

I didn't modify the circuit like I do with the RF-7, I just changed out the capacitors and resistors (polyester for polypropylene/film bypass and Mills resistors). Even so, the sound will be smoother and a bit more laid back. Polyesters sound harsh to me - I guess some people like that. 

 

I once thought the same thing, so I put my stock networks back in - that lasted about an hour. 

[Youthman]

45 minutes ago, Deang said:

Why not just buy some stock crossovers from Klipsch? Call parts and give them your serial numbers. 

That is definitely an option, I just knew trading would be the cheapest route.

 

46 minutes ago, Deang said:

Even so, the sound will be smoother and a bit more laid back. Polyesters sound harsh to me - I guess some people like that. 

They definitely are smoother sounding (somewhat similar to the 83's I had), but not as much.  My ears tend to like a brighter sound.

 

47 minutes ago, Deang said:

I once thought the same thing, so I put my stock networks back in - that lasted about an hour. 

Haha....that's what I'm afraid of which is why I stated that I've decided to keep them installed.  Maybe down the road I'll find a cheap set of stock crossovers to be able to compare the two.  Until then, I'll keep enjoying them just as they are.  Definitely sound good like they are, just wanting to see if the original brighter sound is what my ears prefer.

 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Ill trade you for a few days if you want. Send me one and ill send you a stock one then we can trade back if you dont like it. I just dont want any downtime. I have a custom center that i want to calm down and am curious as to if this would help.

[teaman]

Speakers are like beer. Everyone likes it, everyone has a favorite and every beer offers something different. I don't doubt for a minute that you second guess the sound of xovers. I have A/B'd speakers that should sound very similar and I come away more confused than I already was going in.

 

The think MLO's offer is a good one Youth!

 

 

Tim

[derrickdj1]

This is an interesting topic.  I did just the simple resistor mod on the RF 7's and it did tame the top.  After a little over a year I felt that I missed the top end and converted the speaker back to it's original form.  During that time I found you could not really get the sound back with EQ tweaks, or tone controls.

 

Now that I have the 7 II's, they are great with the stock XO and I have no plans to modify anything.  I like the bit of bright and forward presentation of the RF 7 and 7 II.  I had the 7 II's up against a pair of JTR 210's for a side by side comparison  which are $2300 each.  At the end of the day,  I knew that I loved the RF 7 sound and would not have even considered trading them for the JTR even if they were free.  The JTR's were large 3 way speakers.  The RF 7 and 7 II are true Reference audio speakers IMHO.

 

Good luck with the trade and keep us posted if you get to do another A/B test.

[Deang]

These side by side tests don't work - the ears will always prefer the brighter loudspeaker, because it sounds perceptually louder. 

 

The test I did down in Arkansas a decade ago was to play some music that exasperated the issue (which literally drove everyone out of the room). I then switched both networks out and played the same song - it was pretty obvious to everyone which sounded better. We then spent about an hour putting them through their paces.  

 

Trey Cannon of Klipsch was there, and asked me how I "got rid of the ringing". He wanted me to bring a modded network to Indy for testing, so I did. Running a transfer function showed that the resistor modification created a drop of 1.5dB at 3.5kHz, which is slightly above the crossover point. As it turns out, the mod quieted the cones down, and cleaned up the midrange. He tried to say that the resistor alone was responsible for what we heard, but I knew that wasn't true, since I'd already tried it both ways at home (full blown upgrade vs just the resistor). 

 

I've never heard the RF-7ii - seems hard to believe that the new capacitors would be a step backwards, which are the same that Klipsch used in the 60th Anniversary Klipschorn, which clearly sounded better than the standard Klipschorn. Don't know, maybe it's the Mills resistors, which have an across the board reputation for sounding warm.

 

Maybe I should be using Ohmite for those with Klipsch Induced Hearing Loss (KIHL).  

[Paducah Home Theater]

48 minutes ago, Deang said:

 

I've never heard the RF-7ii - seems hard to believe that the new capacitors would be a step backwards

 

?  This comment is tripping me out.  Why blindly swap out the capacitors and say it sounds way better if you don't know what it sounds like in the first place? 

[Deang]

I've done five sets of these, no complaints, just rave comments. 

 

Is this a "complaint"?

 

Oval Mylars are bottom of the barrel parts. No other reputable speaker manufacturer will use them. People have been emailing me for 15 years, asking me if there is something I can do about "the harshness" - there is - I pull the Mylars and replace the resistors. 

 

Why isn't everyone putting oval Mylars back into their Fortes, Forte IIs, Chorus, Chorus IIs, KLF series, Epic series - when they update the networks for these speakers?

 

There's a graininess to the sound that just gets plain obnoxious when you turn it up - a quality that disappears when you use even an inexpensive polypropylene.

 

Btw, a somewhat lossy cap like a paper in oil doesn't "roll off the highs" - it attenuates them (not the same thing). 

[Paducah Home Theater]

18 hours ago, Deang said:

 

There's a graininess to the sound that just gets plain obnoxious when you turn it up - a quality that disappears when you use even an inexpensive polypropylene.

 

Do active setups with an electronic DSP remove this graininess in the same exact manner or does the polypropylene do some extra magic?