Streaming music via HDMI

[CECAA850]

Awesome

[billybob]

Well since this even supports HDMI out and toslink, and have choice of 2,5.1, and 7.1 if read correctly, while I am checking out a new dac at the moment, might as well get on the waiting list via Amazon for the extractor, giving me time to obtain a toslink dac. Thinking that HDMI from PC to extractor could directly give me, an alternative to my 3.5mm to rca cables from PC. That in itself must be an upgrade in itself. Not that the 3.5 is in anyway too shabby. Also thinking that the HDMI out will not make the unit obsolete in my forseeable future. Thinking direct rca to integrated amp for 2 channel, and looks like LFE. Of course could be wrong. Waiting for my new computer this week...

Thanks some more.

Meanwhile it may take a week to setup computer so, anyone find a batch of the extractor please let us know...

[CECAA850]

I'm surprised they got so scarce so fast.  When I ordered mine, which wasn't very long ago, Monoprice and Amazon had them.  There were 4 on Amazon when Scott ordered his.

[RTR]

Monoprice just sent me an email that the extractor is back in stock. I ordered one.

 

if anyone else is interested.....

[CECAA850]

Amazon has them too.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B5FR8A8/ref=pe_2537330_211249100_em_gn_t1_2p_1_ti

[RTR]

After waiting a couple weeks, I received the monoprice extractor today.  Hooked it up to my computer. I can tell a difference in that the sound is fulller. I really like the improvement.

 

Since i sometime use my computer, i hooked up a $35 Chromecast to the HDMI in on the extractor instead of receiving the stream off the computer.  I couldn't tell a difference between having the computer or chromcast hooked up to the extractor.  It's a low dollar alternative to having a computer hooked up to the extractor.

 

Below is a picture. I'll clean the setup tomorrow, I know it looks like crap. I wanted to hurry up and try the extractor with the DAC. The chrome cast is the disc thing in the picture. It's output is HDMI. I control it from my iPad streaming Spotify premium 

[CECAA850]

25 minutes ago, RTR said:

I can tell a difference in that the sound is fulller.

Great!  Like I said, it's noticeable.  People can debate as to why it sounds better but there's no doubt that it does.

[SWL]

The other day I did a little experimenting. I kept everything the same (laptop>hdmi cable>extractor>optical cable>digital eq>DAC>preamp>amps) but I inserted my Dacmagic Plus into the chain.

It was hooked up optical in.....optical out. The Dacmagic is what I was using prior as a USB to optical converter. The reason I hooked it up is because it allows me to add a couple more digital inputs. It's a very versatile little device but right away after firing it up, I could hear much (not all) of the sound I had before going with the hdmi extractor. So, I immediately took it out of the chain. Then I hooked everything back up the way it was with the HDMI and everything was good.



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[SWL]

The reason why I mention this is because even though everything was digital changing the components changed the sound.

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[Chris A]

This is something that shouldn't be so, but apparently is so. 

 

It's not really in the specifications but rather in the details of implementation:  such as USB power supply irregularities combined with poor implementation of clocking schemas for suppressed-clocking configurations, various DRM-based hardware constraints imposed on the manufacturers (RIAA/MPAA), and incredibly poor conversions to PCM by the manufacturers without the consumer knowing what is happening.  Only these types (and severity) of issues could be that audible once you're into the digital domain.

 

Transparency by the manufacturers on what they've built and better procedures by independent equipment testers to catch these sort of issues is the only way to avoid this in the future without having the consumer find out "the hard way".

 

Chris

[Thaddeus Smith]

The software you guys are using can have an impact on sound as well. Try a different application and see if you notice any difference. Lots and lots of variables.. just like any other type of music reproduction system.

 

[Quiet_Hollow]

8 hours ago, SWL said:

The reason why I mention this is because even though everything was digital changing the components changed the sound.

The source of the confusion earlier in the thread lies in lumping all the hardware under one term "digital" for use in the logic argument, "all digital is the same."

 

They are not, and it is not..particularly the various resultant forms (and subsequently perception) of any distortion(s)...an entirely different topic.

 

The audible difference at play here is largely the conversion between transport layers, which frankly doesn't need to take place.

[Chris A]

14 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:

They are not, and it is not..particularly the various resultant forms (and subsequently perception) of any distortion(s)...an entirely different topic.

I'm not sure what basic schemas of music/sound representation or forms that you are referring to here, Tom, but a few communication formats come to mind: pulse code modulation (PCM), PDM (used in SACD physical media and DSD file formats) including delta (delta-sigma,  CVSD, ADPCM, etc.), PWM, etc. 

 

There are many schemas that are used for different domains, but LPCM (used in audio tracks for CD, DVD, BD) and delta-sigma (used in SACD discs with DSD files) are the two used most in commercial audio systems.  All have their own pros and cons for the domains in which they're used.

 

For HDMI (an interface), there are several audio formats carried:

 

Quote

For digital audio, if an HDMI device has audio, it is required to implement the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM.

 

Other formats are optional with HDMI allowing up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio at sample sizes of 16-bit, 20-bit and 24-bit, with sample rates of 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz.

 

HDMI also carries any IEC 61937-compliant compressed audio stream, such as Dolby Digital and DTS, and up to 8 channels of one-bit DSD audio (used on Super Audio CDs) at rates up to four times that of Super Audio CD.

 

With version 1.3, HDMI allows lossless compressed audio streams Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

 

...Audio return channel (ARC) is a feature introduced in the HDMI 1.4 standard. "Return" refers to the case where the audio comes from the TV and can be sent "upstream" to the AV receiver using the HDMI cable connected to the AV receiver. An example given on the HDMI website is that a TV that directly receives a terrestrial/satellite broadcast, or has a video source built in, sends the audio "upstream" to the AV receiver.

 

14 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:

The audible difference at play here is largely the conversion between transport layers, which frankly doesn't need to take place.

That includes "conversion to PCM"?

 

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

Yup.

 

USB adds another layer to the process (conversion of LPCM unbuffered data, to buffered, and back, along with any associated error), which happens to introduce an audible distortion at the DAC. I don't know specifically what that distortion is, but it is quite easy to discern with the ears.

 

This is very case specific. I'm not talking asynchronous file transport here (like pulling something off of a memory stick or hard drive). Rather, it's USB audio out from a computer where the problems start. Same hardware, but different protocols. For a primer see here:

 

http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio

 

[Chris A]

That deserves further investigation, I believe (conversion losses) 

 

I do know that when my disc player (Oppo BDP-103) converts to LPCM, everything seems to go south rather quickly.  I'm not sure what is happening but I can tell you that the detail, air, and decays all suffer greatly.  It could be that there is some form of data loss occurring also. I avoid that conversion at all costs, including not using the HDMI-1 output port with the extra video processors (the HDMI-2 port doesn't have those processors, and allows the transfer of native DSD--something that I had to learn the hard way and reading the manual carefully). 

 

When you stick a SACD in the disc player (my favorites include The Yellowjackets Hybrid SACDs), if it is converting to LPCM, it's like you're playing cheap and compressed mp3s instead.  All the excitement and presence of the performance just disappears.  I feel this is solely a function of the "convert to PCM" algorithms. 

 

If I find something on this subject, I'll pass it along.

 

Chris

[derrickdj1]

Oh, I'm staying out of this, chuckle, chukle. There is no perfect media, analog or digital!

[SWL]

The source of the confusion earlier in the thread lies in lumping all the hardware under one term "digital" for use in the logic argument, "all digital is the same."







 







They are not, and it is not..particularly the various resultant forms (and subsequently perception) of any distortion(s)...an entirely different topic.







 







The audible difference at play here is largely the conversion between transport layers, which frankly doesn't need to take place.

Who is that chick?

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[Quiet_Hollow]

Emma Stone.

[SWL]

Thought she looked familiar. Probably runs HDMI out of her laptop.

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[SWL]

This is something that shouldn't be so, but apparently is so. 

From the minimal reading I had done over at Computer Audiophile a while back, it seems many over there were really into upgrading their power supplies for this/that component.

So when I inserted another piece of gear into the digital chain, would the fact that another power supply was also added into the chain be the reason for a change in sound? Added noise is how I'd describe what I heard.


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