jwgorman Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I absolutely love that album, but, at some points, Joni's voice seems like it was mixed too hot and it really saturates the Khorn's midrange, like at the end of the song Blue when she's doing that slow pulse vibratto thing. I've used a couple different cartridges so I don't this it's just an AT or an Ortofon issue. Anyone else experienced that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I have forte 1s and Blue from when it was first released. My wife and I listened to it and it sounds clean to us. Played on my Dual 1229 with Shure v15 typei III thru a high end project phono preamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 The original vinyl disc we own is far too noisy to be used for critical listening, so I just unmastered the 1990 Reprise 2038-2 (WEA) version on CD. I can tell you that there was a fair amount of attenuation from 100-300 Hz on many of the tracks as well as some low frequency attenuation below 100 Hz. After unmastering, this disc is a real pleasure to listen to (on Klipsch Jubilees...in my specific case). There were a fair number of HF bumps and dips that varied from track to track, especially around the high hat (~6 kHz) and cymbal (8-12 kHz) frequencies that needed EQ correction. Many of these were frequency response bumps that exaggerated those two percussion instruments and the vocalist's sibilance consonants into the microphone. Once unmastered carefully, these issues disappeared, leaving a smooth and pleasant acoustic resulting performance without the hard edge sound that was there on the original disc. The first track--All I Want--required the greatest amount of fine tuning to get the overall balance correct, but now Joni's voice sounds realistic--if not just a little thin. On all other unmastered tracks, her voice sounds very youthful and balanced with sufficient low frequency fundamentals restored, including and especially the second guitar parts and piano left hand frequencies below 300 Hz--about middle "C". Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 One of my favorite albums of all time. Chris, I wonder what the artists would think of your unmastered tracks? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Wow I'm so not an audiophile. I don't have a clue how you unmaster songs. I just throw records on and listen but it sounds like playing around with remastering music would be the ultimate tweaks. I'd love to hear that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Well, I'm reasonably sure that as long as it sells more albums, they really don't care what is done with them. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that they might actually like people to do that, especially with albums that were recorded ~45 years ago if it helps sales. I know that the unmastered tracks in this album really sound outstanding. I'm still planning to create YouTube video(s) of "How To" in the near future to shorten the learning curve for others. All the tools you need are freeware and all you need is a laptop or desktop computer (PC, Mac, Linux, etc.) with something like an HDMI or USB output port for highest fidelity, and a preamp/processor/DAC with HDMI or USB input (or use something like a Dragonfly USB DAC on your computer if it has good power supplies to its USB ports) - and a well set up sound system (two channel) in a treated acoustic listening space. No money is needed beyond that--just personal time practicing and listening. I suppose that persistence pays off in unmastering...I now feel that I've "hit a groove" in my ability to resurrect damaged music tracks. I've also learned a great deal by unmastering the thousands of music tracks that I have, and have some understanding of the technical and artistic difficulties that musicians suffer in the creation of music albums and mixing them. I also continue have the lowest regard possible for record company A&R executives and their decisionmaking which bleeds over into industry mastering practices that continue to crank out louder and even louder albums that no one I know is asking the record companies to make. I feel this is not only harmful of sales but it also perpetuates itself like a failed or otherwise flawed human subculture. If the record industry would only release "audiophile versions" that essentially consist of only the mixdown tracks, unaltered at no extra cost, I believe that there would be a strong resurgence of audio lovers among Gen-Xers and Millennials like Baby-Boomers were in the 1970s-80s. The difference in sound quality just doing the entry-level unmastering is sometimes jaw-dropping, IMO. The last I heard, Ms. Mitchell was not in good health and a legal guardian had to be appointed for her. This is very sad since I believe that she has been suffering from post-polio syndrome among other longer-standing mental health issues (Morgellons syndrome) and a brain aneurysm. I believe that it was polio that led her to her singing and composition, and the loss of hand/arm muscle strength that also led to the multitudes of guitar tunings that she uses on her music performances. The best thing we can collectively do is to keep buying her albums or even better, sending small donations directly, bypassing the record companies. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I've got this unmastered album on flac. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onemoretime Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 8:46 PM, Chris A said: The original vinyl disc we own is far too noisy to be used for critical listening, so I just unmastered the 1990 Reprise 2038-2 (WEA) version on CD. I can tell you that there was a fair amount of attenuation from 100-300 Hz on many of the tracks as well as some low frequency attenuation below 100 Hz. After unmastering, this disc is a real pleasure to listen to (on Klipsch Jubilees...in my specific case). Very interesting. How much cleaning have you done with your vinyl copy of Blue - would a deeper cleaning make a difference? And how do you unmaster a CD - are you using software or a mixing board? I'm intrigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I used a Spin Clean II, thereafter a bath of isopropyl alcohol and then distilled de-ionised water. The record is trashed unfortunately, but it had a lot of use in the early 1970s. The way that I unmaster is described in this thread - just look at the first post that describes the basic process, except that it's extended to the entire frequency spectrum of each track: Edit: here is the basic process step by step: Chris Edited August 30, 2016 by Chris A Added process description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 We have it and it's hot also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Whew, thought I was the only one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I wonder if later mixes were hotter than mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I doubt it: most "remasters" that I've seen only limit (clip) and compress the tracks more. Once the original mastering EQ is done, apparently almost no changes are actually made in EQ after original release. The changes in EQ that I have seen are small--well within the variations of loudspeaker-to-loudspeaker and loudspeaker-to-room differences in frequency response from flat response. I've found that the real reason why most people dislike the sound of CDs (16/44.1 format) is not because of the format's basic technical performance (which is actually very high fidelity) but rather that vinyl record tracks cannot be clipped to the same degree as CD tracks by record company mastering practices...else the needle won't stay in the groove and simply won't accurately track the groove in a highly clipped track, thus producing very irritating lower frequency (correlated) noise, and the records come back to the retail sellers as "damaged". That's the real difference that I've found. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I've got Blue spinning now. A pre-bar code lp using souped up Cornwalls pushed by 2a3SET monoblocks. I'll listen closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Side one over, not so bad. The combination of 2a3 SEt and a modded Denon 103r cartridge probably has a lot to do with the taming of the highs. Vanessa Fernandez & Rickie Lee Jones reach those upper registers also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 On 8/28/2016 at 8:12 AM, Fido said: Wow I'm so not an audiophile. I don't have a clue how you unmaster songs. I just throw records on and listen but it sounds like playing around with remastering music would be the ultimate tweaks. I'd love to hear that Send me your google user name in a PM... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 A link to a "best of" unmastering thread that describes the EQ used to unmaster the tracks on this album/CD: Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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