When Did We Become So Wimpy On The Forum?

[jimjimbo]

Too bad I'm at the football game today and not enjoying all of this very worthy discussion…

[anarchist]

3 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Well at least you are getting to real facts now instead if of making up your own, like HD has become the largest mc manufacturer in world.

 

If you don't see a problem, I can't help you on that.  Some people on here didn't see a problem with discussing race or religion, they either began to understand, or didn't and now they are gone.  But clearly there is a problem.   

 

It may simply be a problem in narrowing down what the concerns are, how to address them, and determining what to do about it, if anything.  Simply saying "there isn't a problem" is counterproductive, using made up facts to try and prove a point, well that's exactly the problem that is perceived by Roy and others.  You sort of made his point for him in an obscure way.

 

I am going to poke around in the tech/mods section this weekend to see if I can educate myself on where some of the problems might be, and if I can, try to think of possible solutions.

 

If you are a lawyer, you know you should be more careful with your words.

 

1) Harley-Davidson did become the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer - doing exactly what I said. 

2) Harley-Davidson currently owns 55% of the US market with dozens of other competitors owning the other 45%.

 

Claiming I made up facts is simply lazy and a losing argument; particularly when the facts (and history) are evident and available.

 

3) I never claimed there wasn't a problem; YOU brought up there was a problem using your cliche to besmirch anyone with a different perspective.  I simply asked what is the problem since you had yet to state one.

 

You obviously disagree with my opinions, but have yet to articulate a coherent argument against Harley-Davidson's approach, argue there is a problem you can't define, and resort to specious claims regarding the validity of my statements.

 

4) You state there is "clearly a problem" but then admit the problem may be identifying a problem.

5) You then specify you are going to educate yourself to see where there might be a problem after insisting there is a problem.

 

A squirrel in search of a nut will eventually find one.  Your whole approach reminds me of something some dude once said, "if there were no problems at all... [some] would have to invent problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."

[Zen Traveler]

12 minutes ago, anarchist said:

You state there is "clearly a problem" but then admit the problem may be identifying a problem.

I am not sure where this fits into the discussion but Dean said something about the BS forum being established for folks like him and Roy to carry on grievances...For my part speaking as an onlooker, I think the common denominator when these problems occur is it seems to be with the vendors (who also add a lot to the forum)...

 

Insofar as negativity on newe products--On that front I also think Kiipsch has suffered here because so many of us can recommend a better bang-for-your-buck in the used market and that has to hurt sales as well.

 

Of course this has nothing to do with the actual "NO BS Forum," but it was brought up that is the reason it was started many years ago, which both of the above along with yourself have a history in.

[Jeff Matthews]

9 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

 

Insofar as negativity on newe products--On that front I also think Kiipsch has suffered here because so many of us can recommend a better bang-for-your-buck in the used market and that has to hurt sales as well.

 

I'm not so sure on that.  Klipsch isn't going to say, but I have a hunch that:

 

1.  Mods are pretty much limited to the Heritage line; and

2.  The vast majority of revenue comes from Non-Heritage products.

 

So, all the BS over a marginal Heritage line can stem a lot of interest by consumers who, after learning from this forum that Klipsch is good stuff, buy Non-Heritage products.  The Heritage products are very pricey, and I bet the market for new Heritage is very small.

 

[anarchist]

13 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Insofar as negativity on newe products--On that front I also think Kiipsch has suffered here because so many of us can recommend a better bang-for-your-buck in the used market and that has to hurt sales as well.

 

I don't.  Many consumers don't want something from the used market.  They walk into Best Buy, buy something, and are done.  People who come here are generally enthusiasts who aren't satisfied with off the shelf products, want something more, and/or are looking for more value.  If they buy used Klipsch, they are converts and Klipsch gains a new advocate - that doesn't hurt Klipsch, it benefits Klipsch.  Those people selling that old stuff buy new stuff.  if Klipsch maintained parts for all those speakers or had a limited supply of 'universal' upgrades, Klipsch would benefit more in terms of sales.  The vendors here supplying cross-overs, amps, or whatever else keep Klipsch speakers out of the trash bin and generate additional Klipsch advocates.  It is a win-win all around.  That is the Harley-Davidson lesson - again.

 

Now dtel's wife said something in a later post about siccing Roy on the snake-oil salesmen.  In my mind, that is those guys selling cable bridges, magic magnets, speaker wire that has been treated with coke and then deep frozen and such.  I am all for watching Roy publicly ridicule and destroy such folks whether they are forum members or not, but he will probably violate the 'no-insult' limits (and I will cheer him on.)

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, anarchist said:

 

If you are a lawyer, you know you should be more careful with your words.

 

1) Harley-Davidson did become the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer - doing exactly what I said. 

2) Harley-Davidson currently owns 55% of the US market with dozens of other competitors owning the other 45%.

 

Claiming I made up facts is simply lazy and a losing argument; particularly when the facts (and history) are evident and available.

 

3) I never claimed there wasn't a problem; YOU brought up there was a problem using your cliche to besmirch anyone with a different perspective.  I simply asked what is the problem since you had yet to state one.

 

You obviously disagree with my opinions, but have yet to articulate a coherent argument against Harley-Davidson's approach, argue there is a problem you can't define, and resort to specious claims regarding the validity of my statements.

 

4) You state there is "clearly a problem" but then admit the problem may be identifying a problem.

5) You then specify you are going to educate yourself to see where there might be a problem after insisting there is a problem.

 

A squirrel in search of a nut will eventually find one.  Your whole approach reminds me of something some dude once said, "if there were no problems at all... [some] would have to invent problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."

 

"Claiming I made up facts is simply lazy and a losing argument; particularly when the facts (and history) are evident and available."

 

Well you either made up facts or are clearly mistaken.  The facts are readily available which led me to conclude you choose to make up facts. But you are still wrong, Honda has been the largest manufacturer of motorcycles since 1959.  

 

MILWAUKEE ,  Jan. 28, 2016  /PRNewswire/ --  Harley-Davidson, Inc.  (NYSE:HOG) full-year 2015 diluted earnings per share decreased 4.9 percent to  $3.69  compared to diluted EPS of $3.88 in 2014. Net income was $752.2 million on consolidated revenue of $6.0 billion compared to full-year 2014 net income of $844.6 million on consolidated revenue of  $6.23 billion . In the fourth quarter of 2015, diluted EPS was $0.22  compared to  $0.35  in the prior year period. Fourth quarter net income was $42.2 million on consolidated revenue of $1.18 billion compared to net income of $74.5 million on consolidated revenue of $1.20 billion in the year-ago period.  They shipped about 168,000 motorcycles, down from 270K the prior year.    http://investor.harley-davidson.com/mobile.view?c=87981&v=203&d=1&id=2133012

 

Do you know how many Honda sold?  What their sales were? 

 

http://world.honda.com/investors/financial_data/segment/

 

You are not remotely close.

 

That doesn't even cover all the manufacturer sites you claimed don't have vendor policies.  You are right, words are important.   You tried to make a point by claiming that other manufacturers' forums have no rules and that HD became the world's largest manufacturer. 

 

As Quint would say:

 

 

Hooper: Quint, that doesn't prove a damn thing!

Quint: Well it proves one thing, Mr. Hooper. It proves that you . . . don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

2 hours ago, anarchist said:

 

I don't.  Many consumers don't want something from the used market.  They walk into Best Buy, buy something, and are done.  People who come here are generally enthusiasts who aren't satisfied with off the shelf products, want something more, and/or are looking for more value.  If they buy used Klipsch, they are converts and Klipsch gains a new advocate - that doesn't hurt Klipsch, it benefits Klipsch.  Those people selling that old stuff buy new stuff.  if Klipsch maintained parts for all those speakers or had a limited supply of 'universal' upgrades, Klipsch would benefit more in terms of sales.  The vendors here supplying cross-overs, amps, or whatever else keep Klipsch speakers out of the trash bin and generate additional Klipsch advocates.  It is a win-win all around.  That is the Harley-Davidson lesson - again.

 

Now dtel's wife said something in a later post about siccing Roy on the snake-oil salesmen.  In my mind, that is those guys selling cable bridges, magic magnets, speaker wire that has been treated with coke and then deep frozen and such.  I am all for watching Roy publicly ridicule and destroy such folks whether they are forum members or not, but he will probably violate the 'no-insult' limits (and I will cheer him on.)

What if Klipsch got into the aftermarket xover business but as a result had to eliminate vendors from marketing those products on the Forum?

 

It's a thorny issue.

[Travis In Austin]

2 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I'm not so sure on that.  Klipsch isn't going to say, but I have a hunch that:

 

1.  Mods are pretty much limited to the Heritage line; and

2.  The vast majority of revenue comes from Non-Heritage products.

 

So, all the BS over a marginal Heritage line can stem a lot of interest by consumers who, after learning from this forum that Klipsch is good stuff, buy Non-Heritage products.  The Heritage products are very pricey, and I bet the market for new Heritage is very small.

 

Vast, vast, vast, vast majority. 

 

But don't forget that recent poll about having a custom Heritage shop.  There might be some great news ahead. 

[Chief bonehead]

2 hours ago, anarchist said:

 

I don't.  Many consumers don't want something from the used market.  They walk into Best Buy, buy something, and are done.  People who come here are generally enthusiasts who aren't satisfied with off the shelf products, want something more, and/or are looking for more value.  If they buy used Klipsch, they are converts and Klipsch gains a new advocate - that doesn't hurt Klipsch, it benefits Klipsch.  Those people selling that old stuff buy new stuff.  if Klipsch maintained parts for all those speakers or had a limited supply of 'universal' upgrades, Klipsch would benefit more in terms of sales.  The vendors here supplying cross-overs, amps, or whatever else keep Klipsch speakers out of the trash bin and generate additional Klipsch advocates.  It is a win-win all around.  That is the Harley-Davidson lesson - again.

 

Now dtel's wife said something in a later post about siccing Roy on the snake-oil salesmen.  In my mind, that is those guys selling cable bridges, magic magnets, speaker wire that has been treated with coke and then deep frozen and such.  I am all for watching Roy publicly ridicule and destroy such folks whether they are forum members or not, but he will probably violate the 'no-insult' limits (and I will cheer him on.)

Starting now....lol!!  Dude don't worry bout it!  I got it.  Have a nice day and watch some more cool movies!!

[Chief bonehead]

2 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I'm not so sure on that.  Klipsch isn't going to say, but I have a hunch that:

 

1.  Mods are pretty much limited to the Heritage line; and

2.  The vast majority of revenue comes from Non-Heritage products.

 

So, all the BS over a marginal Heritage line can stem a lot of interest by consumers who, after learning from this forum that Klipsch is good stuff, buy Non-Heritage products.  The Heritage products are very pricey, and I bet the market for new Heritage is very small.

 

You maybe right but I bet it's bigger than you think but sales aside these are Paul's babies hence called heritage and what will stop is all peddlers talking about so called upgrades. Pretty simple?  The answer is yes. 

[Chief bonehead]

6 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Too bad I'm at the football game today and not enjoying all of this very worthy discussion…

Don't tell me......MICHIGAN? 

[T2K]

6 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Too bad I'm at the football game today and not enjoying all of this very worthy discussion…

 

 

Don't they play that touch football there?

 

[richieb]

6 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Too bad I'm at the football game today and not enjoying all of this very worthy discussion…

 

Well --- The thread must still be interesting enough to find time to post while at an NFL minor league game? Just sayin' -

[CECAA850]

8 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

At least she doesn't make fun of you for hangin' around being abused by BSrs....Speaking of which, I gather Roy isn't allowed in there--I think I know why.  

Moderators can access any area of the forum regardless of post count.

[CECAA850]

10 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

Well --- The thread must still be interesting enough to find time to post while at an NFL minor league game? Just sayin' -

There sure are a lot of W seat cushions there.  Wisconsin?

[oldtimer]

2 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Moderators can access any area of the forum regardless of post count.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[CECAA850]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Thank you Captain Obvious.

You'rewelcome Private Parts.

[oldtimer]

Just now, CECAA850 said:

You'rewelcome Private Parts.

stay away from those!  Lieutenant slushie.  Besides, it is common knowledge that some have ignored the obvious for quite some time.

[oldtimer]

Just asking for them however, can he put a moderator on ignore?

[CECAA850]

One way to find out.