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justinsweber

JWC Bass Horn

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Could these be used with 2 x 10" woofers? I've got four Volt BM2500.4 that could be interesting to try in this alignment...

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No.  The slots are 7 x 7.  The diagonal line from one corner of the square to another is ~10".  

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No.  The slots are 7 x 7.  The diagonal line from one corner of the square to another is ~10".  



Thanks for setting me straight. What if I were to scale down or shrink the whole horn proportionally (~17%) to fit the 10" woofers, would that work...?

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:47 AM, NiToNi said:


Thanks for setting me straight. What if I were to scale down or shrink the whole horn proportionally (~17%) to fit the 10" woofers, would that work...?

 

I don't think scaling is the best way to go about it. I would think it would need a complete redesign.

 

HB

 

 

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Hi

this looks like an interesting design and the kit makes it so much easier to put things together  . i don't like building from scratch much anymore ...

i am very tempted to try it , the only thing i am wondering is if it might extend a little higher with a driver like the B&C 12PE32 ?

i need to reach 700hz to xover to my mid horn.

the 12PE32 might have a little less low end extension but that is what subs are for .

does anybody have some experience / measurements with different drivers ?

 

thanks

malcolm

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Not to bring bad news to the table here but it is my understanding that the kit will not be available at this time.

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12 hours ago, hum4god said:

Hi

this looks like an interesting design and the kit makes it so much easier to put things together  . i don't like building from scratch much anymore ...

i am very tempted to try it , the only thing i am wondering is if it might extend a little higher with a driver like the B&C 12PE32 ?

i need to reach 700hz to xover to my mid horn.

the 12PE32 might have a little less low end extension but that is what subs are for .

does anybody have some experience / measurements with different drivers ?

 

thanks

malcolm

 

I recall your sale of the Red Spade Audio synergy horns and various other midbass horns. What is your planned system now?

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I plan on starting a second system project with these. What are the qualities I need to look for the 12" woofers for this horn? My only concern is the sound quality and I want to get about 103db+/1w/1m efficiency. I will build these sealed and drive from 70hz to 600hz where I will cross them to a Yuichi 290hz horn with 2" cd (probably radian 850pb-be as I love it) up to around 5khz and then a fostex or a visaton bullet horn tweeter. I plan to build two matching 20hz-80hz subs to go with them. This is the initial plan. So any recommendations :)

 

 

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I can get B&C 12nw100, what do you guys think about it? I think I should get 4ohm version and wire in series to get 8ohms. However it is only 92db efficient around 120hz. Two of them will get me 95db and the horn is supposed to add another 6db, which would be 101db. This wont be happening lower than 120hz though...

 

How much volume I need in the chamber for these woofers and as these were mainly designed for bass reflex, do you think it would be a problem?

 

 

 

 

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On 2/25/2017 at 8:26 PM, hum4god said:

Hi

this looks like an interesting design and the kit makes it so much easier to put things together  . i don't like building from scratch much anymore ...

i am very tempted to try it , the only thing i am wondering is if it might extend a little higher with a driver like the B&C 12PE32 ?

i need to reach 700hz to xover to my mid horn.

the 12PE32 might have a little less low end extension but that is what subs are for .

does anybody have some experience / measurements with different drivers ?

 

thanks

malcolm

 

Great driver...... always wanted some.

 

One of my delay issues with results here is PE sent me a mislabeled eminence driver.  One woofer was different that the other three.  Interesting, it would play out to 1000Hz when the Delta LFS drops ~500Hz.

 

Another Video and updated FAQ soon.  

 

 

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I hope everyone here understands I am not the authority of Bass horns .....nowhere close to the extent of Klipsch Engineers.  I have built several and have drawn up 2-3 dozen more that I've never built.  I have experience and I love talking about them.  However, I have no true training.   I can picture them in my head at this point and somewhat predict their response.   

 

I'm actually building another set of Bass horns .....new design.... while I get my completion information together on the minipunch.  I'm trying to get as much info as I can "off the Klipsch Forum" when information is about a "speaker" or "Horn" that has nothing to do with Klipsch.  This forum does nurture DIY stuff and self discovery and learning....so I will do it to an extent.  I've had very long threads in the past on DIY Horns......But not so sure this forum is the place for that anymore at any significant length.

 

If you would go to Fastlane Audio and look at the FAQ......the reason for the Minipunch I think it is unique and there is no similar offering that you can "just go purchase"

 

I think it is therefore worthy of a DIY plans...for the speaker horn hobbyist.

 

I want this thread to keep going....but I'm not gonna "build it up" as some kinda reference.  I will link out if I feel needed.

 

jc

 

 

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I was asked a generalized horn question which is a good one.......

 

Q.
I have a 110hz round tractrix horn. It has 40 inches diameter at mouth, and is about 27,5 inches deep. It starts loading around 150hz. How come JWC mini punch being such a shallow horn load so low?

 

A.
Yes, your horn is designed full space.  This requires a longer horn length and bigger mouth.

Design a Bass horn 1/4 space with appropriate drivers to match, and easily see lower frequencies can be obtained if put in 1/4 space.  Even easier with a larger throat.

Look at the true physical mouth size of the Jubilee and Khorn.  Not very big.  Designed for 1/8 space.  If they were full space and meant to go below 40Hz, they will have a super huge mouth and a rediculous horn length.....wouldn't even want in you house.....:) (If you want to stay married).  

 

jc

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1 hour ago, jwc said:

I hope everyone here understands I am not the authority of Bass horns...I have experience and I love talking about them.  However, I have no true training.   I can picture them in my head at this point and somewhat predict their response...I want this thread to keep going....but I'm not gonna "build it up" as some kinda reference.  I will link out if I feel needed.

 

The best information that I've found on bass horn performance versus mouth size and path length is in Bruce Edgar's tractrix horn article, figures 4-6, particularly figure 6.  It was from this article that I found the low frequency cutoff of a K-402-based multiple entry horn is about 30 Hz corner loaded, and 40 Hz wall-floor (1/4 space) loaded.  My in-room measurements also confirm those predictions from the charts, even for the heavily modified K-402 horn profile.  Bass horn performance seems to be controlled much more by mouth area and mouth dimension (i.e., relative to its directivity loss) than its path length when putting them inside a real room rather than suspended outside high above ground (i.e., full space). 

 

Of course, those are tractrix horns being shown in the article, but if you multiply the length dimension by 1.1, you'll get the equivalent cutoff frequencies for an exponential horn.  What's not shown in the figures is the acoustic resistance vs. frequency under those "Fc" conditions, which is lower for tractrix horns close to Fc than exponential horns (see Beranek and Olson texts for the acoustic resistance and reactance curves versus normalized frequency for the different horn expansion profiles).  Also note that exponential horns tend to have a hard cutoff frequency (Fc) relative to an equivalent tractrix horn design.

 

The real question in my mind is where Bruce Edgar got those three tractrix horn plots--figures 4-6.  That's pretty interesting, and they appear to be correct.

 

Chris

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On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 6:37 PM, jwc said:

 

Right now, the B&C ME/DE10 tweeter barely keeps up with it.  Parallel Eminence Delta LFA.

 

Dave's FAQ will be updated soon.

 

http://www.fastlaneaudio.com/mini-punch-faq-page..html

What is the estimated efficiency of the speaker? Did you have to pad the DE-10?

Spec on the DE-10 is 107db.

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I'm doing my best not to overstate anything.  I'm due for my 3rd video...to conclude.

 

What I can tell you with parallel wired Eminence Delta 12LFA:

 

1/4 space "flat response" from about 65Hz to 450-500Hz.  About 5dB down to 44-45Hz from there.  This is on a wall about 5-10" out and about 10 feet from a corner.  16Ft ceiling.

 

Using 3 different preamps, 2 sets of amps and different cables and sources,....the DE10 never sounds like it needs attenuated and the RTA agrees.  I do have to pad down the JBL 2482 (amazing driver).  The tweeter has always run wide open.

 

I don't know the exact sensitivity.  I was doing outside curves for this....but once I got everything inside....discovered an error.  I'm not hauling it all back outside again anytime soon.

 

The bass bin is "upright" instead of horizontal....due to space.  It would probably perform even better horizontal.

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With no attenuation on the DE-10, my guess is the sensitivity is roughly the same as Khorn and Lascala. - Perfect.

 

Very Cool HB

 

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