Questions about La Scala

[Borisravel]

Hi everybody.

I'm French and here, klipsch reference are rare on the second hand market, and I've never listened to these speakers.

I actually own a RF7 II speakers, but I've the opportunity to upgrade to a '90s La Scala pair in black finish at a correct price.

I drive my speakers wtih a Nad preamp and a Vincent hybrid power amplifier. My CDP is a Rega Saturn.

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and and a few rock.

I read everywhere these speackers can be improved by adding a bass cabinet.

But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers ?

Is it annoying with musics I listen to ?

Thank you for your answer.

 

[DizRotus]

Bonjour and welcome.

 

I suggest trying them for a time.  You might be satisfied with the bass.  If not, you can add a subwoofer (or 3) or do the bass modification you seem to refer to.  If the purchase price is correct, you should have no problem selling them on if not pleased.  Only do the bass modification after  you decide to keep them.

 

I find La Scalas to be OK as is.  While deep movie bass is absent, the musical bass is fast and tight.  That said, I eventually did the djk bass modification and was pleased with the results.  There are several threads on the subject.  I'd link to some if I were on a real computer, rather than this iPad.

 

If you buy them and continue to post in this thread, I'll locate some of the modification threads and provide links.

 

[pzannucci]

1 hour ago, Borisravel said:

Hi everybody.

I'm French and here, klipsch reference are rare on the second hand market, and I've never listened to these speakers.

I actually own a RF7 II speakers, but I've the opportunity to upgrade to a '90s La Scala pair in black finish at a correct price.

I drive my speakers wtih a Nad preamp and a Vincent hybrid power amplifier. My CDP is a Rega Saturn.

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and and a few rock.

I read everywhere these speackers can be improved by adding a bass cabinet.

But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers ?

Is it annoying with musics I listen to ?

Thank you for your answer.

 

If you require SIZE of sound provided and ambience provided by deeper bass, unless you add subs or bass reflex cabinet to the La Scala, you will probably not like them.  That said, they are worth a try and the trade off depending on your musical tastes, may be worth it to you for the more vocal centric presentation of the La Scalas particularly for opera.

[BamaMike]

I've found with just a little eq tweak, mine sound great! I have some very LARGE Cerwin Vegas as rear speakers that do assist with bass as needed but I've found the La Scala stand on their own very well. Given the tastes in music you cited, I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

 

[JohnA]

6 hours ago, Borisravel said:

Hi everybody.

I'm French and here, klipsch reference are rare on the second hand market, and I've never listened to these speakers.

I actually own a RF7 II speakers, but I've the opportunity to upgrade to a '90s La Scala pair in black finish at a correct price.

I drive my speakers wtih a Nad preamp and a Vincent hybrid power amplifier. My CDP is a Rega Saturn.

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and and a few rock.

I read everywhere these speackers can be improved by adding a bass cabinet.

But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers ?

Is it annoying with musics I listen to ?

Thank you for your answer.

 

 

La Scalas don't lack "bass", but they do lack low bass.  They are nicely flat down to 50 or 60 Hz, depending on the room and position in that room.  The bass notes they reproduce will be clean and clear. 

[twk123]

8 hours ago, Borisravel said:

Hi everybody.

I'm French and here, klipsch reference are rare on the second hand market, and I've never listened to these speakers.

I actually own a RF7 II speakers, but I've the opportunity to upgrade to a '90s La Scala pair in black finish at a correct price.

I drive my speakers wtih a Nad preamp and a Vincent hybrid power amplifier. My CDP is a Rega Saturn.

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and and a few rock.

I read everywhere these speackers can be improved by adding a bass cabinet.

But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers ?

Is it annoying with musics I listen to ?

Thank you for your answer.

 

For the type of music you listen to the bass should be more than sufficient. I have a 15'' subwoofer with mine but usually end up turning it off unless I am listening to Electronic music or Hip Hop. I would get the speakers and listen for a while, if you really feel like you are missing something you can try the added ported cab at the bottom and it is a reversible mod. Classical music is a whole other world on LaScalas, sometimes I will crank them up and literally rock out to Mozart.

[Travis In Austin]

19 hours ago, Borisravel said:

Hi everybody.

I'm French and here, klipsch reference are rare on the second hand market, and I've never listened to these speakers.

I actually own a RF7 II speakers, but I've the opportunity to upgrade to a '90s La Scala pair in black finish at a correct price.

I drive my speakers wtih a Nad preamp and a Vincent hybrid power amplifier. My CDP is a Rega Saturn.

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and and a few rock.

I read everywhere these speackers can be improved by adding a bass cabinet.

But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers ?

Is it annoying with musics I listen to ?

Thank you for your answer.

 

Bonjour et bienvenue sur le forum. Vous allez adorer le La Scallas si vous êtes un fan d'opéra . Un nom parfait pour un haut-parleur si vous êtes un fan d'opéra .

 

Je me demande si vous dérangerait de partager le nom de votre opéra préféré .

 

S'il vous plaît pardonnez mon français , il est très rouillé.

 

Meilleures salutations,

 

Travis

[Chris A]

On 9/15/2016 at 3:17 AM, Borisravel said:

My question is about the bass lack. My musical tastes are opera, early music, classical music and a few rock...But without any modifications, is this problem very audible, or only with comparing with an other pair of speakers? Is it annoying with music I listen to ?

Since I've been remastering my entire music collection, I provide this perspective.  You will likely hear a little loss in the octave from 30-60 Hz.  Below that, there are few recordings that contain much low bass. 

 

Classical music low bass is dominated by the double bass (typically 41 Hz lowest frequency for the open "E" string) and a few wind instruments, such as the contrabassoon, contraclarinet and tuba.  Bass drums are tuned to different fundamental frequencies depending on the period which the music was written, with the lowest frequencies in the 20-40 Hz region, but these low frequencies are all attenuated by record companies in order to make the recordings much louder.  Early classical music of the Baroque, Renaissance, and earlier periods use reduced-size double basses with about a 60-80 Hz lowest frequency, or they can be using cellos substituting for double bass parts. 

 

Rock music is usually dominated by the 41 Hz fundamental electric bass and the kick drum--which is usually attenuated on the recording via mastering to the 60-80 Hz band in the recordings.  Most people experience "deep bass" in the 60-100 Hz region. 

 

So the result is that you'll probably not hear any real loss of bass except perhaps modern jazz bass (31 Hz fundamental on the 5-string electric) and kick drums while playing jazz music recorded within the last 15 years, and produced in SACD format.  Classical pipe organ music on SACD recorded since the year 2000 in SACD or DVD-A format will have fundamentals in the 20-30 Hz region--and these require the use of a subwoofer. 

 

(Translated into French via Google Translate below)

 

Depuis que je remasterisation ma collection entière de musique, je donne cette perspective. Vous entendrez probablement un peu de perte dans l'octave 30-60 Hz. En dessous, il y a quelques enregistrements qui contiennent beaucoup de faible basse.

Musique classique basse basse est dominée par la contrebasse (typiquement 41 Hz fréquence la plus basse pour le "E" string ouvert) et quelques instruments à vent, tels que le contrebasson, contraclarinet et tuba. tambours basses sont accordées à différentes fréquences fondamentales en fonction de la période où la musique a été écrite, avec les fréquences les plus basses de la région de 20-40 Hz, mais ces basses fréquences sont toutes atténuées par les maisons de disques afin de rendre les enregistrements beaucoup plus fort. Au début de la musique classique de l'époque baroque, Renaissance, et les périodes antérieures utilisent de taille réduite contrebasses avec environ un 60-80 Hz fréquence la plus basse, ou ils peuvent en utilisant violoncelles substituant à des parties de contrebasse.

Rock est généralement dominé par le 41 Hz basse électrique fondamentale et la grosse caisse - qui est généralement atténué sur l'enregistrement via la maîtrise de la bande 60-80 Hz dans les enregistrements. La plupart des gens d'expérience "basses profondes" dans la région 60-100 Hz.

Donc, le résultat est que vous aurez probablement pas entendu toute perte réelle de la basse sauf peut-être moderne jazz bass (31 Hz fondamentale sur la 5 cordes électrique) et des tambours de coup de pied tout en jouant de la musique de jazz enregistrés au cours des 15 dernières années, et produit en SACD format. Musique classique d'orgue sur SACD enregistré depuis l'an 2000 dans la SACD ou DVD-Un format aura fondamentaux dans la région 20-30 Hz - et ceux-ci nécessitent l'utilisation d'un caisson de basses.

 

Chris

[Borisravel]

Thank you for your complete answers.

I'll probably bought this pair of speakers, but they are a little far and I have to do 1300 km to pick up them. So I can't do that in a week-end and I must wait for the next holidays in 4 weeks.

You're right, first step is to buy them, second to listen to them and I'll have time to decide if I need a sub or not.

Just a question: what is the best way to obtain the maximal capacity with the boomer: to put directly on the floor them to maximize the contact with the floor or to use anti-vibrations pads ?

 

@dwilawyer, I'm rather an early music enthousiast (I'm harpsichord, organ and lute player...) than a pure opera enthousiast. But I notbaly like all Mozart's opera (Magic Flute, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan Tutte), Rameau (Hyppolite et Aricie), Gounod's Faust and so other. But my absolute favorite composer is Bach.

 

Thank  you again for your answers, I must now wait for 4 or 5 weeks... If you agree, I'll post some picture when the speakers are set up.

[billybob]

Tooo unable to read vut posirive it has a meaning... Can nyou enlarge...

[garyrc]

23 minutes ago, Borisravel said:

Thank you for your complete answers.

I'll probably bought this pair of speakers, but they are a little far and I have to do 1300 km to pick up them. So I can't do that in a week-end and I must wait for the next holidays in 4 weeks.

You're right, first step is to buy them, second to listen to them and I'll have time to decide if I need a sub or not.

Just a question: what is the best way to obtain the maximal capacity with the boomer: to put directly on the floor them to maximize the contact with the floor or to use anti-vibrations pads ?

 

@dwilawyer, I'm rather an early music enthousiast (I'm harpsichord, organ and lute player...) than a pure opera enthousiast. But I notbaly like all Mozart's opera (Magic Flute, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan Tutte), Rameau (Hyppolite et Aricie), Gounod's Faust and so other. But my absolute favorite composer is Bach.

 

Thank  you again for your answers, I must now wait for 4 or 5 weeks... If you agree, I'll post some picture when the speakers are set up.

If you use a sub, try bringing it in at about 50 Hz.  The La Scala is so clean and precise sounding to below 60 Hz, it would be a shame to muddy it up with a sub crossed over too high.  La Scalas usually have the best bass if they are on the floor, very near a wall, or against a wall, or in a corner.

[Deang]

Placed into good corners, you can expect a very clean and precise 45Hz. 

[Tom Mobley]

My son plays doublebass and has even lately even branched out to playing a little electric bass guitar.  I have my LS hooked up to an older Nakamichi 100W/channel amp in the family room.  Nothing special about that amp.  Of course the LS would drive you from the room and even the house if I ever turned up that amp into it's sweet spot range.  But I will say this without reservation, my LS can reproduce faithfully anything my son can play on his bass.  I completely fail to notice any lack of bass in the speaks.  I think that deal is mostly pushed by people who play movies with sound effects.  They don't go down there but that's not music any way.

 

Dallas Wind Symphony?  fine.  San Diego Spreckles Organ in Balboa Park?  Yes.  Latest movie with Oscar-winning special effects?  I can't even pretend to care.  Plastic syntho-pop?  I'd rather not.  Alabama Shakes?  Yes and double-yes.  Just IMO, YMMV, all that.

[Tom Mobley]

Good to see you Dean.

 

Dean was the main guy who made me feel welcome when I showed up here back in 2001 or whenever it was.  Thanks, Dean.  Lot of water under the bridge since then.

[Borisravel]

Hello ! I'm back with my LS with my actual placement.

First, I'm now sure: there is no need of a sub, basses are dry and very deep, my armchair vibrates with some lower notes.

I'm just wondering about the crossover. It seems not to be original. Perhaps I'll update it later.

 

what should I look at to optimize sound ? Placement is, IMO, not too bad. I've read about horn's gasket ?

Thank you.

[jimjimbo]

Great looking LS and nice setup.  I would recommend updating the crossovers for sure, for the best short term performance gain.  The AL, which you have currently is generally regarded as the least desirable crossover in the LS.  Bob Crites sells crossovers for the LS, and you should reach out to him.  Horn gaskets recommended as well, as long as you're working on the crossovers.  Personally, I would turn your rug 90 degrees to cover more of the front of the speakers, and you may eventually want to add some room treatments to minimize reflections, but I'll let the room treatment experts jump in on that.  I will also say from personal experience that Crites CT-120 tweeters sound awesome in a LS, and you could sell the K77's to recover some of the cost.

[Khornukopia]

Congratulations on getting those good looking La Scalas.  I would want to hear Golden Slumbers, from Abbey Road, played through your nice stereo.

[Chris A]

17 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

Personally, I would turn your rug 90 degrees to cover more of the front of the speakers

Yes.

 

28 minutes ago, Borisravel said:

I'm just wondering about the crossover. It seems not to be original.

That is the original crossover by its appearance.

 

You also have the option of using an active crossover and tri-amping (i.e., three stereo amplifiers) to time align the loudspeakers.  The sound is unsurpassed.  Here is a thread that has active crossover settings for the Belle Klipsch, which is essentially the same for the La Scala except for the delay and bass/midrange crossover frequency settings (the La Scala midrange delay is 0.5 ms, the tweeter is 1.69 ms, and the midrange/bass bin crossover frequency is 400 Hz). 

 

It's just another alternative.  If you're considering spending a lot on passive crossovers, like ALK, etc., using an active crossover and tri-amping starts to become attractive from a price standpoint.

 

Chris

[Borisravel]

Thank you for your answers. Is this a real sound difference between AL and AL-3 crossover ?

 

[garyrc]

2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Great looking LS and nice setup.  I would recommend updating the crossovers for sure, for the best short term performance gain.  The AL, which you have currently is generally regarded as the least desirable crossover in the LS.  Bob Crites sells crossovers for the LS, and you should reach out to him.  Horn gaskets recommended as well, as long as you're working on the crossovers.  Personally, I would turn your rug 90 degrees to cover more of the front of the speakers, and you may eventually want to add some room treatments to minimize reflections, but I'll let the room treatment experts jump in on that.  I will also say from personal experience that Crites CT-120 tweeters sound awesome in a LS, and you could sell the K77's to recover some of the cost.

I agree.