Deang Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 He thinks consumption and power output are the same thing. A night light that needs 7 watts to operate has nothing to do with the output of a SET amplifier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 30, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/28/2016 at 9:19 PM, mkane said: Back from vacation and realized I started something.Good or bad, don 't know. I'll just enjoy what I have which is a pair of awesome crossovers were really enjoying. It's a good thing in my view. Unfortunately it got diverted. I have taken care of that by hiding that user's posts. Unfortunately it has left a few responses to those posts out of context. If people want to leave them as is that is fine, if they want to edit them that is fine too. if they want me to hide them I am happy to do that too. Just PM me. Everyone can carry on from the point of the unnecessary interruption . I don't think it merits any additional comment or discussion in your thread. If you, or anyone else, wishes to discuss it further you can PM me so that the discussion can proceed without further interruption or distraction . Travis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 "Troll. " Hmm, your probably right. A dB or so loss generally gets the flea-power crowd excited (easy to see why). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 4 hours ago, djk said: "Troll. " Hmm, your probably right. A dB or so loss generally gets the flea-power crowd excited (easy to see why). That's too funny and oh so true. I once listened to a Jub/K402 set up. Beautiful hand built flea-power amps. Monster power supply, just killer. Passive networks with built in E/Q for the horns. Top of the line caps and inductors $$$ The LF got a bit "floppy" at volume with hard music. Insertion loss plus lack of headroom = Floppy LF. tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 8:13 PM, sunnysal said: hopefully robo nerd will take a powder or at least learn some online etiquette. calling bullshit on basic electronic principals is plain stupid. he may claim that the losses are not significant or audible in his opinion but not call bullshit. I have noticed the site degrading over time as most everything becomes a quick tempered, almost religiously charged atmosphere. glad to see that the old timers stick around to post even in this environment. T Tony, You are old and cranky. smile You still running that beautiful 7-T ? tc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Well, were using a bit of power, 1.75w thereabouts with a passive pre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 10/30/2016 at 11:47 AM, Deang said: He thinks consumption and power output are the same thing. A night light that needs 7 watts to operate has nothing to do with the output of a SET amplifier. And not much to do with how much light it outputs either A 7 watt LED can burn a hole in your retina, a 7 watt Christmas tree bulb not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted November 6, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 6, 2016 On 10/30/2016 at 8:41 AM, Deang said: Troll. no. just al.....being al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Sock puppet? Lol, wouldn't surprise me a bit - except robonerd wasn't making much sense, and I can normally decipher most of Al's rants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I just broke my post-election-mourning facebook avoidance and happened to swing by Al K's facebook group. It looks pretty likely that he was in fact "Robonerd" based on his rant about this thread, which is kind of disappointing to me. I don't think anyone cares about how much current their audio equipment is drawing from the mains, as long as we like how our systems sound. Robonerd's argument seemed to be based on the assumption that people run low wattage SET amps to save money on their utility bills, which is completely absurd. My understanding is that people prefer the sound of these amps to more complex ones with more power, and that is why they run them and why limiting headroom with resistors in crossover networks MAY be an issue... I guess I was hoping the man behind the swamping resistor concept would have presented a more coherent argument, especially since I am inclined to believe that the swamping resistor is a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybadger Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 43 minutes ago, Doug said: I just broke my post-election-mourning facebook avoidance and happened to swing by Al K's facebook group. It looks pretty likely that he was in fact "Robonerd" based on his rant about this thread, which is kind of disappointing to me. I don't think anyone cares about how much current their audio equipment is drawing from the mains, as long as we like how our systems sound. Robonerd's argument seemed to be based on the assumption that people run low wattage SET amps to save money on their utility bills, which is completely absurd. My understanding is that people prefer the sound of these amps to more complex ones with more power, and that is why they run them and why limiting headroom with resistors in crossover networks MAY be an issue... I guess I was hoping the man behind the swamping resistor concept would have presented a more coherent argument, especially since I am inclined to believe that the swamping resistor is a good thing! That's not exactly what I took from Al's face book page. Though I didn't understand Robonerds argument either. Apparently he like the Badger though!!! HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Would it make sense to simply calculate the current passing through the swamping resistor using Ohm's law when playing constant volume/frequency sine wave? Seems like it should be straightforward to determine what fraction of the total current delivered by the amp is being shunted to ground via the resistor, which would provide some good empirical evidence for the question on whether it makes a significant impact on the available headroom in a system. Edit: I guess this would make more sense using pink noise? Is this something I could do with my digital multimeter? Would it be valid to measure the voltage drop across the entire network (between the + and - input terminals) to calculate total current being drawn by the loudspeaker, or is this more complicated than my rudimentary understanding of electronics is leading me to believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybadger Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I am sure one of the technical types could figure out to the milliwatt the additional draw through the swamper. (It's not much) HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 The most important point I got from this thread is that the swamping resistor can draw more power from the amp than the driver according to Mike's math. Just think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 ^Zing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Not intended to zing anyone...........it is a striking discovery because I have used ALK networks for years and continue to. Love them. My systems deliver plenty of power so no issues. But the thought of a resistor demanding more power than the driver was something I never considered. The ESNs use 2 swamping resistors. One for the mid and for the tweeter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 My DHA2 crossovers are far simpler, with only a single swamping resistor. I've never felt my 2A3 amps ran out of gas on any of the music I play. Where in this thread di Mike show the math for the power through the resistors? I've missed it in the pages.. I guess I will start at the beginning... Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, mark1101 said: Not intended to zing anyone...........it is a striking discovery because I have used ALK networks for years and continue to. Love them. My systems deliver plenty of power so no issues. But the thought of a resistor demanding more power than the driver was something I never considered. The ESNs use 2 swamping resistors. One for the mid and for the tweeter. your big stacks are passive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 No.............I have an almost identical setup on the other side of the room that is passive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Page 6 has the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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