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Giving up on the Fortes???


vondy

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I've had a revelation of somewhat recently. I don't make the time to sit down and listen to my music as much as I want to. Why? Because most of the time, instead of listening to my music, I'm listening to my speakers.
 
In my case, I spend all my time trying to figure out why these fantastic Forte II's have such a "grating" sound. Why is the mighty Forte II harsh and fatiguing? I've upgraded to Bob's tweeters and crossovers, tried 5 different amps, multiple sources, good recordings and bad, etc. Hell I've spent more time moving the speakers around the room than I have listening to them. Even built some really nice risers to get the mids up to ear level.
 
What I've come to realize is, it's just not really worth it. What's the point if you don't want to listen to them? I'm not going to cover my walls with foam or buy a new house with a more ideal room just for my speakers. I'm not going to throw out all my music and convert to only listening to Jazz pre 1980's music. The Forte II's sound best listening to something acoustic with a single instrument at moderate volumes as long as you are in the narrow sweet spot. Once you turn them up or get multiple instruments going, they go to hell.
 
So, I need to switch so I enjoy listing to my music again. Looking for any recommendations. My goal would be to get as close to the artist being there without it being harsh. I need a more forgiving speaker, forgiving of the space and less than perfect recordings. I'd trade some detail for smoothness. I do want punch and that live sound though. I also want a quality product, yet I can't spend much more than I have on my used pristine Forte II's so used is fine.
 
I'm not apposed to other horns if there are some that are more mellow, newer RP series any better? I have a feeling it will be back to direct radiators though.
 
I know I can't have it all but there's got to be speakers out there that make me want to listen to them and I know you fine people can help out.
 
Thanks!
 
 
 
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Vondy, I am sorry to hear you're not enjoy the Forte II's.  They are a great speaker and can bring musical bliss.  It sounds like a problem in setup and FR.  Many of us don't point the tweeter at our ears.  The MLP moved back around 3 ft. may help.  Aim them to converge in front of the MLP or off to the shoulders.  Also, the 2 kHz to 5 kHz bandwidth may need to be lowered around 3 db depending on room size and MLP.  You don't have to plaster all the walls with room Tx's.  This can be accomplished with some plush furniture to breakup some of the HF reflections.  Something soft on the back wall or near the MLP may also help.

 

My concern is changing speakers may not solve the  problem if this is setup and room related.  I'm sure others will chime in and try to help.

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1 hour ago, vondy said:

So, I need to switch so I enjoy listing to my music again. Looking for any recommendations. My goal would be to get as close to the artist being there without it being harsh. I need a more forgiving speaker, forgiving of the space and less than perfect recordings. I'd trade some detail for smoothness. I do want punch and that live sound though. I also want a quality product, yet I can't spend much more than I have on my used pristine Forte IIs so used is fine.

 

Where do you live in the Dallas area?  (Note that PMs work fine for me.)

 

Chris

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1 hour ago, derrickdj1 said:

Vondy, I am sorry to hear you're not enjoy the Forte II's.  They are a great speaker and can bring musical bliss.  It sounds like a problem in setup and FR.  Many of us don't point the tweeter at our ears.  The MLP moved back around 3 ft. may help.  Aim them to converge in front of the MLP or off to the shoulders.  Also, the 2 kHz to 5 kHz bandwidth may need to be lowered around 3 db depending on room size and MLP.  You don't have to plaster all the walls with room Tx's.  This can be accomplished with some plush furniture to breakup some of the HF reflections.  Something soft on the back wall or near the MLP may also help.

 

My concern is changing speakers may not solve the  problem if this is setup and room related.  I'm sure others will chime in and try to help.

 

 

This is not a large room and it's pretty filled with furniture and a rug. I've gotten lasers out and changed positioning etc. It helps some if you are sitting right in the MLP. My goal is to not have to always be in that MLP. 

 

Here's what i'm after. I want the whole room to sound good and the MLP to sound the best. Right now the whole room sounds harsh and the MLP sounds the best, but still harsh. Make sense? I don't want to run people out of the room if they are not sitting in my lap. They may not be getting the full effect but I want them to say, "hey, those speakers sound great," not "turn that down, it's hurting my ears" at moderate listening levels.

 

I would not sale my Fortes before I was sure a new set of speakers would work for me BTW. I understand your concern about me not being happy with a new pair.

 

My pre-Klipsch speakers were these big JBLs from the early 90's I had since high school. I never recall any music having that harsh sound in any room, and they lived in several houses including this one. They were DR.

 

Thanks for your suggestions derrickdj

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1 hour ago, vondy said:
I've had a revelation of somewhat recently. I don't make the time to sit down and listen to my music as much as I want to. Why? Because most of the time, instead of listening to my music, I'm listening to my speakers.
 
In my case, I spend all my time trying to figure out why these fantastic Forte II's have such a "grating" sound. Why is the mighty Forte II harsh and fatiguing? I've upgraded to Bob's tweeters and crossovers, tried 5 different amps, multiple sources, good recordings and bad, etc. Hell I've spent more time moving the speakers around the room than I have listening to them. Even built some really nice risers to get the mids up to ear level.
 

While nearly everybody seems to like the newer tweeters and crossovers, I suggest you not automatically assume that such changes are "upgrades" -- they are simply a different product, not necessarily a Klipsch designed and approved product.  Maybe your experience is an outlier.

 

Are you sure the new tweeters are a comfortable-sounding improvement? 

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1 hour ago, LarryC said:

While nearly everybody seems to like the newer tweeters and crossovers, I suggest you not automatically assume that such changes are "upgrades" -- they are simply a different product, not necessarily a Klipsch designed and approved product.  Maybe your experience is an outlier.

 

Are you sure the new tweeters are a comfortable-sounding improvement? 

 

New tweeters and crossovers were done in response to the harshness. Didn't notice much of a change in harshness but highs seemed more detailed. I'm pretty sure the harshness is coming from the midrange.

 

I feel like I've exhausted myself over the years trying to tame it. I'm at the point where it's just to much work and I don't think a speaker should take that much involvement. Maybe with a tube setup it will calm down but I can't be throwing that kind of money into them hoping it will work.

 

I think there is some merit to the phrase everyone hates here, that "horns are ____." I believe that they can be the best sounding speakers but it takes so much work to get them right, and in my case, I don't think there is much else I can do short of buying a new house with an extra room for them. There has to be a reason 99% of speakers don't have horns. I'm guessing it's room issues. 

 

I know everyone here loves horns so I'm not trying to dis on them. Most of you guys take this as a very serious hobby so I fully understand where you're coming from. While I see this as sort of a hobby of mine, I'd rather spend more time listening and less figuring things out. Just don't have the funds or time at this point in my life.

 

All that being said, I'm not going out to buy anything new soon so I haven't jumped ship just yet.

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5 hours ago, vondy said:

So, I need to switch so I enjoy listing to my music again. Looking for any recommendations. My goal would be to get as close to the artist being there without it being harsh. I need a more forgiving speaker, forgiving of the space and less than perfect recordings. I'd trade some detail for smoothness. I do want punch and that live sound though. I also want a quality product

 

What about these?

 

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/ele/5772813439.html

 

1

 

If these were near me, I would find a way to own them.  They are beautiful.

 

Bill

 

 

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Vondy,

 

I had the same issue with mine and sold them recently. They just weren't for me. I used them with and without the upgrades. Sometimes your ears just don't like what others think sound good or bad. They weren't bad, but they just weren't for me.

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7 minutes ago, twk123 said:

What is your source material and if digital what DAC Are you using? Klipsch horns without a good DAC is a miserable experience. A DAC with a tube buffer that you can throw a warm tube into will help out quite a bit.

Excellent question.  Digital sucks unless you have remastered it or listen on speakers that veil why it sucks.  Forte IIs are very forgiving of most amplification, but not forgiving on source material.  Mine seem to do just fine with a sunfire amp and complex orchestral music with a good recording.

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3 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Excellent question.  Digital sucks unless you have remastered it or listen on speakers that veil why it sucks.  Forte IIs are very forgiving of most amplification, but not forgiving on source material.  Mine seem to do just fine with a sunfire amp and complex orchestral music with a good recording.

I agree with this and I don't agree with this.  Digital doesn't have to be remastered to be good.  If it's recorded right the first time it can be as good or arguably better than analog.  There's crap tube amps and great tube amps.  There's great ss amps and crap ss amps.  There's great digital and crap digital.  The quality of the source (as you say) can make or break the listening experience.  The more revealing your speakers are the better your source has to be.  The better your room has to be.

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23 minutes ago, twk123 said:

What is your source material and if digital what DAC Are you using? Klipsch horns without a good DAC is a miserable experience. A DAC with a tube buffer that you can throw a warm tube into will help out quite a bit.

Using Emotiva Stealth DC-1 for a DAC. I've experimented with all sorts of sources including vinyl.

 

24 minutes ago, Jim said:

Vondy,

 

I had the same issue with mine and sold them recently. They just weren't for me. I used them with and without the upgrades. Sometimes your ears just don't like what others think sound good or bad. They weren't bad, but they just weren't for me.

This is what I'm afraid of at this point. It may very well be that I need a less revealing speaker.

 

I'm working with Chris on some EQ knowledge so let's see where that leads me.

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7 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

I agree with this and I don't agree with this.  Digital doesn't have to be remastered to be good.  If it's recorded right the first time it can be as good or arguably better than analog.  There's crap tube amps and great tube amps.  There's great ss amps and crap ss amps.  There's great digital and crap digital.  The quality of the source (as you say) can make or break the listening experience.  The more revealing your speakers are the better your source has to be.  The better your room has to be.

I think we need to make sure to focus on the flow as well. Running a streaming service like Spotify through your computer's DAC is going to sound like crap. Running Spotify through a quality DAC is going to sound much better. Running Fidelify (Assuming it gets out of beta some day) through a bit perfect format like AISO or WASAPI is going to be best.

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