Jump to content

Giving up on the Fortes???


vondy

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, vondy said:

Using Emotiva Stealth DC-1 for a DAC. I've experimented with all sorts of sources including vinyl.

 

This is what I'm afraid of at this point. It may very well be that I need a less revealing speaker.

 

I'm working with Chris on some EQ knowledge so let's see where that leads me.

In that case I think you may want to look for a different speaker. I only really have experience with my KG 5.5s and LaScalas. The KG 5.5s are fun with tons of bass but the off axis response is poor so unless you are in a sweet spot the sound is not very good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does backing the treble knob down a few notches help?

 

Also, do you have a reflective table in front of the MLP?

 

BTW, I have two DC-1 DACs, which are used in 2 different systems with several different speakers.  That DAC is not the source of your harshness, based on my experience.

 

The speakers just may not be for your ears and your room...and that's ok.  Anyone who's been into this hobby for a while has likely owned speakers that ultimately didn't float their boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, vondy said:

I need a more forgiving speaker, forgiving of the space and less than perfect recordings. I'd trade some detail for smoothness. I do want punch and that live sound though. I also want a quality product, yet I can't spend much more than I have on my used pristine Forte II's so used is fine.

For the love of Pete, try a different amp. <_<

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, in the absence of any other ideas....have you made sure that the cabinets are fully secured together, meaning no loose panels.  Checked the motorboards, checked all of the drivers to make sure they are secure.  Are your woofers OK, no rubbing, no buzzing? Do the Forte's sit on a carpet or bare floor?  Is there lots of glass in the room, windows?  I know, I'm reachin' here.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have a buddy with another set of tower speakers you can borrow for awhile to see what their sound might be the your ears? If I were still in denton, I'd be glad to bring some Norman Lab Model 9's, JBL L100t's, Infinity Quantum 3's or RSIIIa's over to see how they worked in comparison.  These direct radiators sound great and are very forgiving.  Maybe that's why I like my CF3's so much....they are a different beast from the other Heritage line.  Everyone hears different.  No harm, no foul there for sure.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Forte is a wonderful speaker.  It sounds to me that somewhere something is wrong as your experience isn't typical.  Now, it could be that your particular hearing is sensitive to something the Forte is doing, in which case there is no fix other than to replace them (the speakers, not your ears -- unless you are really determined :D).  However, it is worthwhile to first see if you can find if something isn't quite right somewhere.  Yes, tube amps will smooth out the sound, but what you are describing and to the extent you say doesn't seem like solid-state alone is the culprit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you've elevated them to get the mids to ear level, the deepest bass will be diminished, tipping their overall tonal balance toward the more strident side.  

 

For the sake of sharing experience of my similarly stand mounted forte II, here's what I do:

-steep lpf @ 25 hz (protect the speaker!) 

-a judicious, fairly narrow-band boost at 35 hz

-a slight reduction at about 3 khz to take the edge off.  Cross fire w/ axis crossing several feet in front of the main listening position (this will completely eliminate hard early reflections from side walls, however they're treated).

-use an amp that has plenty of headroom (the bass boost will eat up power)...the Carver should suffice quite nicely.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the HK 430 sounded bad I think the speaker has something wrong with it. Maybe the mid range driver is loose or the rubber washer is bad. Could be loose horn screws or motor board. If you have not checked any of this out maybe it would a good idea. Could be as simple as a bad mid diaphragm also.

  Can you take pics of inside of speakers maybe something can be seen by one of us ? Try and tighten up the mid range driver while your there if it turns at all rubber washer could be bad.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't pinpoint a cause without listening to the system, but it appears to be an acoustic issue. I can recall helping people move, and we always moved the stereo out of the old house last, and moved it into the new digs first. The stereo always sounded awful at first and improved as the furniture was brought in. Uncontrolled reflections from an untreated room were the issue. You may need wall treatments to cure the problem since it appears you have some soft furniture in the room already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You had mentioned you feel the harshness is from the midrange. You could try replacing those diaphragms...perhaps something is wrong there.

 

If the problem is not there, and you've experienced good sound in your room before, I'd say you just don't like them. It happens. That's why there are so many speakers out there - many with a more 'relaxed' and mellow sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's fascinating how many people have so much passion about a product line. I love my Fortes but if I didn't I would not keep listening to them. Sound is subjective. I used to have the best Cerwin Vega speakers with huge 15 inch woofers - they rocked and I didn't need a sub with them. My fortes sound great to me but I'm sure  JBLs would sound great, too, or advent or Infiniti etc. listening to music is just part of th experience  - just thinking out loud. Surprised people are so attached to a product line

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my speakers pointed directly at me because 99% of the time I listen at around 65-70db and it sounds great. If I want to turn it up at all I rotate the speakers so that they are pointing straight ahead so that they more or less energize the room instead of blasting right at me. I'm not sure its fair to expect the same intricate detail and finesse from a speaker at 110db as at 60db. Both volumes can sound excellent just different.

 

Fighting a room can be very frustrating, I've seen it happen several times and have had it happen to me and it just sucks. Hopefully you get it worked out.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry to hear about your dislike of the forte 2's... you are right that each person hears different & some just dont like the horn sound.  i own a pair of forte 2 & had the original fortes, also have many other klipsch, chorus 2, k-horns, kg 5.5, cf-4, etc etc.  personally i like them all in certain ways & they all also have their downfalls.  i listen mostly to rock, classic rock, some jazz & some newer rock/alt music... on many recordings they can sound "harsh" especially at higher volumes or like you mentioned when there are multiple instruments & the music is very "busy"... although on some recordings they can be rather impressive.  but i agree, it shouldnt be so difficult to get that magical sound.  i grew up in the 80's & 90's with many other brands of "mid-fi" speakers & gear & higher end car audio, & never noticed the harshness some klipsch can have.  so i can identify with what youre saying.  heres my personal opinion of suggestions for a more forgiving speaker that doesnt really lose any detail, & doesnt really require a sweet spot.... some here will not agree with this because they are dead set on horns or the klipsch brand.  dont get me wrong, i love my klipsch otherwise i wouldnt still own 8 pairs of their upper end models, BUT, i can appreciate other brands & the qualities they have, just like fine women & cars or anything really... variety is not a bad thing!  ;)
 
my suggestion for greatly improving the sweet spot & soundstage is with bi-polar based speakers, namely definitive technology.  i have owned many of their speakers, initially for home theater & IMO they cant be beat for that purpose, but they are also great in 2-ch stereo as well... in some ways they are much better than standard box speakers.  mainly in how forgiving they are for not perfect recordings or less than perfect gear, you can put in a cd that sounds terrible on big klipsch horns & it will sound fine on the def techs.  why is that?  i dont know, but its a obvious difference.... there is zero harshness or fatigue that you are saying the fortes have.  but the most noticeable is how good they sound from almost anywhere in the room, because they have front & rear firing drivers they fill the room with very equal & balanced sound... its not just a gimmick & when done right bi-polar sound is pretty darn amazing.  it has the ability to make the room feel much bigger & tone down harshness & the speakers almost disapear when you close your eyes!  when watching a good movie they are far better than direct radiating speakers... no sweet spot is required for movies or music but there is still the ideal spot as with any speaker.   
 
after hearing almost all their models past & present i feel the best bang for the buck is the last generation of the built in subwoofer models... the 7000 series. i have the 7002 which has dual 5.25 drivers & 1" tweet on the front & same on the rear panel plus a 300 watt 12" powered sub. they also have 2 smaller models & 2 bigger models in that series, the 7001 & 7000sc are incredible speakers but priced a little higher than the rest.  the 7002's can be had for well under a grand for the pair.  & also the non powered models like bp10 or the biggest ones in that line the bp30 can be had for $400-$600.  i have the 7002 & bp30's running in a 2 ch stereo 4 speaker set up & it will hang with the big k-horns & equal the chorus or fortes, but at louder levels has no harshness that can happen with horns .  granted they might not have the all out shear volume the k-horns are capable of, but the sound is much more pleasing overall in most situations & you dont have to have a specific selection of recordings that sound good like you do for the k-horns.  i realize thats a matter of the klipsch super high sensativity ratings, but if you dont like how they saound & dont have $$$  for tubes or dac's or other specialty gear & x-over upgrades to make them sound good,  whats the point?  any speaker will benefit from upgrades, buying EQ & DAC's & new caps for the x-overs will improve the sound just like klipsch...  
 
apologies to anyone that takes offense to suggesting a speaker other than klipsch, thats not my intent, but if you go to other forums that are not brand specific, you will see many people just simply dont like the horn sound.  i for one do like it, in certain situations, many situations... but also have an open mind to appreciate what other brands have to offer.  look around on craigslist or ebay etc for some def tech in the same price range as your fortes, i think you will be surprised how good they really are.  oh & a big plus is def techs customer service... best in the business.  no unobtainable parts or paying for a recone etc... just no questions asked awsome customer service.  
 
i am a longtime klipsch fan & will always be, but there really is a whole 'nother world of audio out there, if you give it a chance.  best of luck in finding the sound you are looking for.  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I believe the Fortes mechanically as good as they get. I've checked inside and out several times. Bought these from a forum member and they were well taken care of. The harshness is not some big glaring problem like a bad driver, etc. It's more of a fatigue issue I guess you would say. Kind of like hearing someone in the next room with a really annoying voice yapping away for an hour.

 

After speaking more with Chris, I believe a lot has to do with the recordings. So I'm even going to have to do some EQ work or find speakers that are just less revealing of less than perfect recordings.

 

The analogy that comes to mind is that Klipsch's high end speakers are like Ferraris. Given the perfect track and conditions, they are a dream to drive. Put them on a regular everyday road with traffic and potholes, you are going to be wishing for something else. Problem is, our homes and recordings are regular everyday roads, tough to drive the Klipsch down. Full disclosure, I've never driven a Ferrari or have owned a pair of the bigger Klipsch. ;)

 

klipschfancf4, thanks for that very helpful post. I would agree that sometimes people just prefer a different sound or do not have the ability to get their speakers where they want them. I also agree that Klipsch are great and I love the brand. But I don't think there is anything wrong with exploring alternatives. I'll look into your suggestions.

 

Still looking more into the EQ deal at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, vondy said:

It's more of a fatigue issue I guess you would say. Kind of like hearing someone in the next room with a really annoying voice yapping away for an hour.

Hey, we're trying to stay away from personal comments about Carl here....:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, djk said:

1) Sell them.

    2) Or fix your music that sounds bad (i.e., the source of the problem)

 

I like option "2" a lot more.  When you fix the music itself, it stays fixed (that is, you don't have to ever touch it again), it doesn't cost anything, and it can be tweaked in the future if your setup changes.  You also tend to slow down on switching out gear-rather dramatically.

 

When you change loudspeakers and/or rooms, everything else usually winds up changing, IME...even the music that you tend to play.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I had the same problem with my Fortes, I find the speakers to be very amp fussy.  I originally brought a Nuforce power and a Threshold pre to team up with the Fortes and the sound was atrocious like the poster mentioned.  I decided to reserve judgement until I paired them with some vintage amps that I have, the speakers sounded a whole lot better the older the amp, in the end I found what I was looking for and the Fortes sound exactly how I wanted now.  If you take the vintage route I found a humble Quad 303 to be exceptional with the speakers, the Marantz 2230 is also good but in the end I found the ancient wood cased 10w Sugden A21 about the best mating for these fantastic speakers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...