Kalifornian Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I've got some circa 1978 Belles. Running Marantz SR6007 receiver with preouts to Emotiva SA-250 for the Belles. In a past life I had a tube amp and La Scalas with Crites tweeter and and xover upgrades. Wanting to upgrade the Belle. Like the Volti route but price is an issue. Is there a set it and forget it xover that I can get now that will work with stock (or upgraded tweeters if need be) and then get the upgraded horn and 2" driver later? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Ever thought of going active? Then, you can align the signals too. I'd urge you to consider the Klipsch K510 (and going active) to make it a 2-way speaker. The K510 is in their cinema lineup and is a 2" (throat) format horn. (picture is not of my speaker but someone who did what I mentioned) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifornian Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 I have WAF issues so need to keep them looking stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxonmymind Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Might start looking here... http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch I'm in the same boat as you and sent in my set to have them rebuilt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Kalifornian said: I have WAF issues so need to keep them looking stock. For the improvement in sound, I'd then be looking on how to have a new top hat built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybadger Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 3:48 PM, Kalifornian said: Is there a set it and forget it xover that I can get now that will work with stock (or upgraded tweeters if need be) and then get the upgraded horn and 2" driver later? Thanks. ALK universal crossover should work for your needs. HB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 6:06 PM, Kalifornian said: I have WAF issues so need to keep them looking stock. Then this will solve your problems: That's the biggest upgrade in terms of sound quality that's available for a "stock-looking Belle", IME. Just leave the stock passives in place, and use the connector blocks to direct-couple the drivers to the amps of your choice. EDIT: I'd recommend at least a 2-in, 6-out crossover...like an EV DC-One (used or new), Ashly Protea 3.6CL or 4.24, Yamaha SP2060, or Xilica XP 3060. I don't recommend Behringer or dbx in any case, or miniDSP unless you're pretty handy with programming/electronics and integrating them with better power supplies. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zobsky Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 6:52 PM, Chris A said: Then this will solve your problems: That's the biggest upgrade in terms of sound quality that's available for a "stock-looking Belle", IME. Just leave the stock passives in place, and use the connector blocks to direct-couple the drivers to the amps of your choice. EDIT: I'd recommend at least a 2-in, 6-out crossover...like an EV DC-One (used or new), Ashly Protea 3.6CL or 4.24, Yamaha SP2060, or Xilica XP 3060. I don't recommend Behringer or dbx in any case, or miniDSP unless you're pretty handy with programming/electronics and integrating them with better power supplies. Chris What's wrong with minidsp ? Their products seem pretty easy to use for me and their newer offerings have at least 2V on the output unllike the original minidsp 2x4 . Apart from that, I'm with you on having at least 6 outputs (3 per channel) for anything resembling plug & play "activization" of stock heritage klipsch speakers. 8 outputs "might" make integrating a sub somewhat easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 If you're not experiencing noisy performance of miniDSP, consider yourself lucky. If you search this forum's pages on the use of miniDSP active crossovers by members owning high efficiency horn-loaded loudspeakers, you will see many instances where their use was abandoned. The only fix in those instances where noise is an issue seems to be external battery power for the miniDSP. If it's their $100-$200 lower price that's more important--and the risk is worth it--then some folks might be able to use miniDSP. However, I know that the other crossovers I listed will work without risk. It's that quality thing (in this case: power supply) yet again. Most people on this forum are paying far more for their passive crossover from third parties, and their passive networks cannot be reused if anything changes on the loudspeaker (like horns or drivers) without significant modification and testing. Active crossovers are meant to be used again and again with different loudspeakers for the life of their owners without physical modification, other than changing a few screen settings. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 hours ago, Chris A said: Most people on this forum are paying far more for their passive crossover from third parties, and their passive networks cannot be reused if anything changes on the loudspeaker (like horns or drivers) without significant modification and testing. None of this is true. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profsbg Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On October 27, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Chris A said: If you're not experiencing noisy performance of miniDSP, consider yourself lucky. If you search this forum's pages on the use of miniDSP active crossovers by members owning high efficiency horn-loaded loudspeakers, you will see many instances where their use was abandoned. The only fix in those instances where noise is an issue seems to be external battery power for the miniDSP. If it's their $100-$200 lower price that's more important--and the risk is worth it--then some folks might be able to use miniDSP. However, I know that the other crossovers I listed will work without risk. It's that quality thing (in this case: power supply) yet again. Most people on this forum are paying far more for their passive crossover from third parties, and their passive networks cannot be reused if anything changes on the loudspeaker (like horns or drivers) without significant modification and testing. Active crossovers are meant to be used again and again with different loudspeakers for the life of their owners without physical modification, other than changing a few screen settings. Chris Is this true about miniDSP? I get a different impression from this and other forums, specifically that the noise is mitigated by a digital input and/or appropriate gain structure. I personally would not use an analog input to a digital crossover, especially an analog preamp which is intended for volume control. It's also essential to have some way of attenuating the output, such as trims on the amplifier. Lacking this approach, the miniDSP with its lower cost analog circuitry would be at a disadvantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 See http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/286927-midrange-compression-drivers-budget-7.html#post4631611 Understand that this is a power supply issue to the miniDSP. It isn't confined to only the analog input port(s) of the miniDSP. If you believe that you've got the solution please share your miniDSP experiences. (Pictures are worth 1000s of words, too.) If you've got AES/EBU outputs from your preamp (or digital player/computer), then you can avoid the {analog output (preamp) to analog input (active crossover)} conversion. I'm waiting for those <affordable> multichannel preamps with more than one AES/EBU output to hit the market, however. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profsbg Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 If I recall, there are noise level and spectral studies on the miniDSP, along with discussion of the role of digital input and gain structure on various forums, including miniDSP's own. Some of the results suggest different performance amongst the different implementations (2x4 versus 4x10 for e.g.). I will look them up and we can have a discussion, but this is probably not the right thread. I don't own miniDSP so it isn't my solution, but I thought we were both just speculating - maybe not a good idea that. Not sure I understand your comment about AES/EBU output. I would use S/PDIF or perhaps HDMI from my digital player, the latter supports multichannel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 7:52 PM, Chris A said: Then this will solve your problems: That's the biggest upgrade in terms of sound quality that's available for a "stock-looking Belle", IME. Just leave the stock passives in place, and use the connector blocks to direct-couple the drivers to the amps of your choice. EDIT: I'd recommend at least a 2-in, 6-out crossover...like an EV DC-One (used or new), Ashly Protea 3.6CL or 4.24, Yamaha SP2060, or Xilica XP 3060. I don't recommend Behringer or dbx in any case, or miniDSP unless you're pretty handy with programming/electronics and integrating them with better power supplies. Chris Chris, Are you recommending: - leaving the Belle stock - disconnect the passive - get an active 2-in and 6-out active crossover - six channels of amplification ? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 32 minutes ago, profsbg said: but I thought we were both just speculating Unfortunately...it's not really "we". The folks reporting the noise at that link, above, are people that I know...and trust. I believe them when they say "it's ridiculously noisy"...and they are referring the "it" to miniDSP in general...as in "all units they've heard or tested". Perhaps you might read more on that link to understand the scope of that discussion (and others there running horn-loaded loudspeakers and miniDSP--i.e., not direct radiating). I don't own miniDSP stock, or stock in any other audio hardware manufacturer. I also really don't see how on the one hand people are spending crazy amounts of money on third party passive crossovers (advertised on this forum without paying Klipsch for the honor, to boot) and calling them great...but on the other hand, perhaps others (or the same people) pick the cheapest, most unreliable and poorest sound quality digital crossovers and say "well, this deserves more attention". I don't share that sentiment, unfortunately. I recommend hardware to others here that I know is quality that will work without modification--and reliably over time. So I really don't believe that miniDSP deserves any more of my time, unfortunately, (just like the cheap Behringer and the cheapest dbx unit). There are much better units out there for only a few bucks more. I set my threshold perhaps a little higher than you might. YMMV. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Hey, if we are spending someone else's money, let me give my free advice. If there is room to fit a Klipsch K-510 horn in the top section (it is only 9 inch tall and 15 wide), then strip out the mid and tweeter and replace them with the K-510 and go to a two way system. Next get an active crossover since it will also allow time-alignment and boost for the CD horn. Don't get bent out shape about needing an expensive DSP crossover, even for a moderate amount of money the improvement will be dramatic. Personally, I would not go to an off-brand horn but that is just me playing it safe. The K-510 sounds great. I used to use them on top of my Jubilees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I've found that third party horns vary widely in sound quality (especially those with slots in their throats), and I've also found that low-balling the quality of digital crossovers is not something that I'd recommend, but for perhaps $100-$300 more (sort of like the quality of a preamp or an amplifier), you get much better sound quality. These crossovers that I'm talking about aren't "expensive" (especially used): that threshold for me starts at about $1500 and goes up in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifornian Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well......I was thinking simple moderately priced solutions. 500-1000 tops. I don't want to tinker. I want to listen to music. I'm not an audiophile (yet) but I'm not tone deaf either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 I used a minidsp and found it to be noisy, switched to an Ashley model and havent complained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.