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Last Will


T2K

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Like probably many of you I have come to the conclusion that I am not going to live forever. I have been married to the same mean old woman for 40-somethings years and we have no kids. Every tangible thing that I own is jointly owned by myself and my wife, including all financial type accounts. I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into my situation insofar as what type of Will that I need in my state to protect that which would belong to my wife upon my death. As far as I know there is no one that would contest or otherwise have claim to anything that we own. So to protect myself I need a document expressing my wishes.

 

If I remember correctly my neighborhood attorney charges around $600 & up for a simple will. I'm thinking about writing my own simple Will myself and having it witnessed and Notarized. Any comments or prior experiences anyone would care to relate?

 

Keith (still standing)

 

  

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Get a quote!  :P

 

I bet if you call around locally you can get a will done for way less than $600.  I wouldn't be surprised if you can find somebody in the $100 range for a simple will.  The advantage of using somebody locally is they will keep a copy of the will on-file for safekeeping, although for that price you might have to make a trip yourself to get it registered at the courthouse.

 

I'm sure you have Googled wills and found them all over the internet.  Some are free, some will cost you a fee to download.  Some sites will give you advice for a fee.

 

I suggest you not choose based on $$$, but on your comfort level.  Whatever makes you feel OK about this is probably the best way to go.

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There is an old saying, "Penny-wise and pound foolish."  $600 is not the lowest price, but it's still a bargain.  If you try to do your own will or get a non-lawyer to tell you, "It's easy; here's a basic will you can use as a template," you know what?  You better understand what you are signing because nobody else has filtered it for you.

 

Do you know these things:

 

1.  How a class gift differs from a gift made in equal shares?

2.  The effect of ademption?

3.  Your state's anti-lapse statutes?

4.  What a residuary clause is?

5.  What parts of your estate are non-probate and are not affected by your will?

 

The scrivener part is easy (for the most part), and it's easy to look at a will and realize that a lawyer can easily crank this out using MS Word.  Rip-off?  Not in the least.  You are paying for somebody who presumably knows what they are doing and can help you plan for a number of contingencies.  Face it, you don't get to die (normally speaking) in full control of the circumstances that exist surrounding disposal of all of your assets.

 

I've seen some serious unexpected results happen even with lawyers involved.

 

Here's something very basic to think about given your circumstances:

 

What will your wills basically state?  "Everything to my spouse if he/she survives me, but if he/she does not survive me, then to my heirs at law according to the laws of descent and distribution in effect at the time of my death?" This is typical, basic strategy for a married couple with no children.  So, what happens is the spouse who survives longest gets everything.  He/she can then leave it all to whomever he/she pleases.  If you die first, your half could go to your wife and then, ultimately wind up going to her siblings or nieces/nephews, to the exclusion of all of your relatives.  Maybe this is okay with you; maybe not.

 

Your $600 will get you much more than a will if you pick a good attorney who is willing to take the time to go over all your circumstances and explain things.

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You guys all want to do this for free or as little as possible.  I am an attorney and paid another attorney several thousand dollars to set up a trust and related docs.  Who do you think understands the law the adverse consequences of doing this wrong? 

 

Spend some money now so that you wife does not have to try to deal with this when she is in distress.  If you have anything that will need to go through probate you should just set up a trust.  You may be able to avoid this if title to everything that is titled will just pass by recording a death certificate.  If not, make it easy on her with a simple trust.  Mine is complicated but you can do this cheaply if your estate is simple. 

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Here is an excerpt from the AARP website:  For informational purposes only....

 

Is getting a will expensive? It can be, but there are also numerous free resources to help you draw up a new will or update an old one.

  • Wills on Wheels. After her handicapped son died, Jean Turner of Denver needed to update her will for her three surviving adult children. But Turner, 79, had neither the money nor the mobility for the legal task. She lives on Social Security and a small pension as a retired hospital nurse assistant and suffers back pain so severe she is homebound.

    Wills on Wheels, a volunteer committee of paralegals and attorneys in the Denver area, came to Turner’s rescue — literally. They drafted Turner’s will, advance medical directives and a financial power of attorney. The documents set forth Turner’s treatment choices if she cannot speak for herself and name someone to act on her behalf in financial matters.

    They delivered the documents to Turner’s home and witnessed the signing of the documents — all for free. Although they are not affiliated with each other, there are Wills on Wheels programs in other states. To see whether there’s one near you, type “wills on wheels” followed by your state into an Internet search engine.
  • AARP’s Legal Counsel for the Elderly. In Washington, AARP’s Legal Counsel for the Elderly program works with volunteer lawyers to provide free wills, along with other legal and social services, for low-income residents of the District of Columbia. LCE’s staff and volunteers assist more than 5,000 older people each year.

Serving Our Seniors. This program offers free wills, living wills, and powers of attorney for health care and property to hundreds of seniors in 25 states. In Chicago, project chairman Justin Heather has been forming a nonprofit Serving Our Seniors Foundation and website to continue and expand the project.

  • Pro bono wills programs. Many more programs exist across the country. Some have age and income limits, but seniors aren’t the only beneficiaries. In some areas, younger disabled people or HIV/AIDS patients may qualify, as well as veterans, active-duty military and first responders. Type “pro bono will” followed by your state’s name into an online search engine to see about programs that you might tap.
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Tiger's opinion of trusts varies from mine. I tend to think there is a time and place for a trust but that caution should be used not to use them unnecessarily.  They come with bureaucratic layers of their own, such as having to file special tax returns, etc.  I have had occasion to undo a trust by family agreement simply because the trust made no sense in light of the family dynamics.  

 

Trusts are most useful when you don't want to give the person the money or property without strings attached.  The probate process is not expensive or lengthy, contrary to what many trust-peddlers will tell you.  The myth that probate will drain estates dry was conjured up by "financial adviser" outfits that would go to hotels on a circuit and sponsor "free" workshops in ballrooms designed to scare people into using their services.

 

A typical probate should cost no more than $2,000 - $3,500, which is probably less than the thousands people spend creating and maintaining trusts.  Once you create a trust, you still have to maintain it (at least for tax purposes), year after year.  There might be some exceptions I am missing, as trust law is not my forte, but I think I have it generally right.

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We had an attorney that specializes in elder law and estate planning do ours.  It was amazing how many different scenarios he covered that we never dreamed of but could easily see happening.  He went several generations in the future with stipulations and was extremely thorough.  

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Thanks for all the comments thus far. As Jeff has mentioned in the past, yes, I still use cash. And checks. That's it. No debit card, no I-Phone. Old School. My wife and I have a joint checking account and joint savings accounts at non-bank institutions. No stocks, no bonds, no 401k. That's it. We have no debt. Our home and cars belong to both of us jointly. We have brothers and sisters that are all retired and in their late 60's. Other than that, nada on relatives.

 

So, in the instance of my death all things mentioned should belong to my wife the way that I see it. I don't know who or how anyone could challenge that. But I don't know the law so I guess I'll research a little further into the matter. I'm not planning on kicking the bucket tomorrow but I'm sure a lot of dead people have uttered those same words.

 

Thanks again for the all the comments. I type this as I sit near my Klipsch speakers.

 

 

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I'll basically agree with the basic principle stated above.  Find an attorney experienced in this area, and in your location. 

 

If you're a member of a church the pastor may know someone.  Same for fraternal organizations, or, importantly, even your bank.

 

Let me also suggest that you and your wife both need wills which take into consideration what happens when one and the other will "reaches maturity." There may be tax consequences, and many other matters, which can be optimized if you plan ahead.  Please also understand that someone will have to attend to your estate at the end.  Make it easy on them.

 

As the Car Talk guys said, "It is the stingy man who pays the most."  It should not cost very much. 

 

WMcD

 

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Former Simpson attorney Robert Shapiro has an online sight to look at before you put wills in place. In the meantime make sure any real property, bank accounts, motor vehicle's that you own are joint with 'right of survivorship'. Designate your spouse as 'beneficiary' on any and all life insurance policies (i.e. not in your LW&T to keep probate costs as low as possible.

 

 

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3 hours ago, T2K said:

I'm not planning on kicking the bucket tomorrow but I'm sure a lot of dead people have uttered those same words.

Classic:lol:

 

3 hours ago, T2K said:

Thanks again for the all the comments. I type this as I sit near my Klipsch speakers.

 

 

"They can take my Klipsch speakers when they pry them from my cold, dead hands..."  :P

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12 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Tiger's opinion of trusts varies from mine. I tend to think there is a time and place for a trust but that caution should be used not to use them unnecessarily.  They come with bureaucratic layers of their own, such as having to file special tax returns, etc.  I have had occasion to undo a trust by family agreement simply because the trust made no sense in light of the family dynamics.  

 

Trusts are most useful when you don't want to give the person the money or property without strings attached.  The probate process is not expensive or lengthy, contrary to what many trust-peddlers will tell you.  The myth that probate will drain estates dry was conjured up by "financial adviser" outfits that would go to hotels on a circuit and sponsor "free" workshops in ballrooms designed to scare people into using their services.

 

A typical probate should cost no more than $2,000 - $3,500, which is probably less than the thousands people spend creating and maintaining trusts.  Once you create a trust, you still have to maintain it (at least for tax purposes), year after year.  There might be some exceptions I am missing, as trust law is not my forte, but I think I have it generally right.

 

A simple revocable trust is pass through.  Not that expensive.  Even an irrevocable trust with a separate FEIN (think asset protection trusts) can be pass through if set up properly and not need a separate return. 

 

10 hours ago, T2K said:

Thanks for all the comments thus far. As Jeff has mentioned in the past, yes, I still use cash. And checks. That's it. No debit card, no I-Phone. Old School. My wife and I have a joint checking account and joint savings accounts at non-bank institutions. No stocks, no bonds, no 401k. That's it. We have no debt. Our home and cars belong to both of us jointly. We have brothers and sisters that are all retired and in their late 60's. Other than that, nada on relatives.

 

So, in the instance of my death all things mentioned should belong to my wife the way that I see it. I don't know who or how anyone could challenge that. But I don't know the law so I guess I'll research a little further into the matter. I'm not planning on kicking the bucket tomorrow but I'm sure a lot of dead people have uttered those same words.

 

Thanks again for the all the comments. I type this as I sit near my Klipsch speakers.

 

 

 

Here a trust is probably not necessary.  With small estates that do not have many titled assets, if you carefully make sure that everything will pass (as in joint tenants with rights of survivorship) probate might not be necessary.  There are probably local free clinics where you can get advice. 

 

 

All of this legal zoom and Robert Shapiro stuff is scary.  You can do a lot of damage and it is expensive to unwind. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Schu said:

Cant you give most everything away prior to death?

 

My parents did that for most things that were already in their will, especially after they moved into a (not big enough) condo. They even put each of the kids' names on some CD's (certificate of deposit) as well as the parents' so those could be accessed more easily when the time comes.

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We hired an attorney to deal with my father in laws stuff.

I've recommended him to others around here and so far, (knock on wood) I've had 100% fantastic response back about him.  (he is a nice guy)

My criteria happened to be, I wanted someone who specialized (to the degree they can do that) in estate law AND, I wanted him to be a CPA.

 

They're out there.

 

Regarding your investment accounts, I would only say, put beneficiary designations on ALL the accounts (bank savings, CD's, checking).  You said you didn't have any stocks, 401K so those aren't an issue.  (unless your wife has some, then it would be)

 

(I'm not an attorney.....nor am I one of those financial advisors who try to get you to go to the hotel....  I at least offer dinner at a nice restaurant!)

:huh:

 

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