Dave911 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) Cześć! Cześć! Pół roku temu kupiłem te głośniki, mam go z Yamaha RX-V 657, jakość dźwięku jest dobra, ale barwa dźwięku jest tragiczna, wypełnić dźwiękiem brakującego więcej często 500Hz-1kHz, niestety, mam używać korektora i dodaj + 3dB w tym zakresie. Czy będę musiał sprzedać te głośniki? Przepraszam za język, używam trasnalator Edited November 16, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Where are the specific trouble frequencies? Below 500 hz? An important thing to consider is the influence of local acoustics. All rooms have an influence, and I suspect what you're noticing are issues with room modes. In most rooms, these will influence response up to 200-300 hz or so, depending on the room dimensions, and can play havoc with response at the main listening position. That's just a shot in the dark, with so little to actually go on. If I'm on the right track, you can play with speaker placement, as different locations will couple to the room differently and result in different modal response. You may not be able to get it perfect, and you will likely find that the best locations for bass are not the same ones for optimal imaging. This is where subs come in handy, and particularly multiple subs for the sake of modal smoothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) If you switch off the equalizer, the melodies in trance music are silent and silenced, only hear the bass and hihats. when you turn on the equalizer All sounds can be heard equally. nothing dominates hole in the band above 500hz t the acoustics of the room I have done everything possible. thick carpet, damping wall opposite the speakers, equilateral triangle, but still sounds of midbass are withdrawn He does not want to use the equalizer because it degrades the sound, but otherwise not enjoy music Edited November 8, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 52 minutes ago, Dave911 said: ...the sound quality is good, but the color of the sound is tragic. [I have to] fill in the missing sound...frequently in the 500Hz-1kHz [band], unfortunately; I have to use the equalizer to add + 3dB in this regard. Three decibels of boost isn't very much. Your Yamaha A/V receiver should have room correction software/firmware that corrects not only for room acoustics modes but also loudspeaker frequency response. Perhaps this is a symptom of using that software/firmware? It sounds like (to me) that you may have an overall balance issue with lower midrange and midbass frequencies. 12 minutes ago, Dave911 said: [I do] not want to use the equalizer because it degrades the sound, but otherwise [I don't]...enjoy music. If your Yamaha A/V receiver is degrading the sound when using its YPAO or manual graphic equalizer mode, I think that you have an issue with your A/V receiver's room correction software/firmware...and your own preconceptions on how digital room correction software/firmware performs. In every case that I've heard, there is no "degrading of sound" using a graphic equalizer, rather there is a potential for unbalancing the frequency response of the loudspeakers--which usually points back to the software/firmware in automatic room correction mode. I recommend using Room EQ Wizard and a calibration microphone to run a sweep to look at the on-axis frequency response before and after YPAO corrects your loudspeaker frequency response. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Hmm. Seems to me that the eq is addressing a frequency problem and resulting in the preferred sound. Just use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Chris A said: Three decibels of boost isn't very much. Your Yamaha A/V receiver should have room correction software/firmware that corrects not only for room acoustics modes but also loudspeaker frequency response. Perhaps this is a symptom of using that software/firmware? It sounds like (to me) that you may have an overall balance issue with lower midrange and midbass frequencies. If your Yamaha A/V receiver is degrading the sound when using its YPAO or manual graphic equalizer mode, I think that you have an issue with your A/V receiver's room correction software/firmware...and your own preconceptions on how digital room correction software/firmware performs. In every case that I've heard, there is no "degrading of sound" using a graphic equalizer, rather there is a potential for unbalancing the frequency response of the loudspeakers--which usually points back to the software/firmware in automatic room correction mode. I recommend using Room EQ Wizard and a calibration microphone to run a sweep to look at the on-axis frequency response before and after YPAO corrects your loudspeaker frequency response. Chris always use manual settings, my Yamaha is just eq for the center speaker, an old model. My old speakers for tonsil Zeus, has never been problems with the middle band. Electric guitar until hummed and on KLIPSCH guitar sound thin. It seems to me that these speakers have withdrawn midrange and very bright high bandwidth. Have you nothing is impossible to do, and I will have to sell them? Edited November 8, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Maybe you will ultimately decide to change speakers, but it behooves you to use the tools at your disposal to optimize the performance of the ones you own first. Replacing speakers is much more expensive. Also, your concerns regarding sonic degradation from using the eq in your avr are unfounded. If it results in "nothing missing" as you put it, which I assume is the goal, just use it and get on with rocking out to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Can you take a picture of your room with something like a smartphone and post the image in this thread? This usually helps a great deal. Again...I think that 3 dB of boost is about as small of a frequency response correction as most people can hear in this octave of sound (500-1000 Hz), and I believe that you might have an issue with too much midbass+bass instead of having too little upper midrange. A frequency sweep will help to determine what is happening. If you've spent money on carpet and wall absorption, $100(US) or less for a UMIK-1 USB microphone isn't a whole lot of investment, and will likely help you to avoid selling cost and buying costs for new loudspeakers. 16 minutes ago, Dave911 said: Have you nothing is impossible to do, and I will have to sell them? Something apparently is lost in the translation here. I doubt that selling the RP-250Fs is necessary, but after all is said and done, your decision. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Ski Bum said: Maybe you will ultimately decide to change speakers, but it behooves you to use the tools at your disposal to optimize the performance of the ones you own first. Replacing speakers is much more expensive. Also, your concerns regarding sonic degradation from using the eq in your avr are unfounded. If it results in "nothing missing" as you put it, which I assume is the goal, just use it and get on with rocking out to music. I am the supporter to listen to music without any additives, flat. On the Polish forums, people say that the speakers as they play because they have withdrawn midbass. And if you want to correct something I need to look for an amplifier which is juicy in midbass and mild treble. If this does not help, I have to look for speakers neutral Gentlemen, could you recommend me to do these amplifier speakers do 1k$ Prices friend told me Vincent SV-500 i listen Classic Trance music Edited November 8, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Go for it (...new loudspeakers, that is). I do not own an RP-250F. I own Klipsch Jubilees, etc. which require EQ to perform their best. They're also among the best-sounding loudspeakers that I've heard...hands down. Using amplifiers to do EQ is an expensive and time-consuming hobby in my experience. It also doesn't work very well to correct room acoustics issues...again, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 O boy, based on your last post, it would also behoove you to learn about the fundamentals of sound and sound reproduction before spending any money on anything. It will inform your decisions better than an anonymous group Polish audio nuts (or even us Klipsch nuts) ever will. Toole's book would be a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkfan9 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Dave911 said: I am the supporter to listen to music without any additives, flat. On the Polish forums, people say that the speakers as they play because they have withdrawn midbass. And if you want to correct something I need to look for an amplifier which is juicy in midbass and mild treble. If this does not help, I have to look for speakers neutral Gentlemen, could you recommend me to do these amplifier speakers do 1k$ Prices friend told me Vincent SV-500 i listen Classic Trance music To make sure I'm understanding correctly, you do not want any EQ in your preamp, but you want EQ by finding an amp with a non flat frequency curve? EQ in the pre amp or outboard EQ stage is best because you can control it, while at the amp stage it is not defeatable if rooms or speakers change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Dave911 said: Gentlemen, could you recommend me to do these amplifier speakers do 1k$ Prices Maybe an NAD C375BEE if you are looking for an integrated amp and an NAD C275BEE if an outboard amp. Not sure what either costs in Poland. Oh, welcome to the forum. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 There is almost no "harm" that your 3 db adjustment can be doing to the sound quality of your speakers. If you have the sound you like after that small adjustment, be happy, save your money and time, and enjoy the result you have obtained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Hi! I want buy good AMP to my Klipsch. Cambridge Cxa60 good match ? Sound is not too bright ? Edited November 16, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 34 minutes ago, Dave911 said: want buy good AMP to my Klipsch. Cambridge Cxa60 good match ? Sound is not too bright ? While I have not heard that model of Cambridge Audio, I do own and enjoy my Cambridge Audio 640A v2 with my Klipsch RB-75's and my previous RB-35's. I did not find the combinations as bright sounding at all and very neutral. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I'm tested cxa60, Onkyo 9050 and Yamaha sound is very bright , treble shock , i cant listen trance music, i heard Only boom boom and tsss tsss :-\ Vocals and melody quiet than hihats and cymbals . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Don't blame the amps for the quality of the source material. Did it ever occur to you to use the tone controls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave911 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) AMPs has been tested on audio shop , On High Quality Cd player and Bluetooth flac files, and not enought low Mids frequency Edited November 21, 2016 by Dave911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 That's a frequency response issue, not an amplification or power issue. Onkyo, CA, and Yamaha amps all conform to the same engineering standards: all sport linear response, low output impedance, and low distortion. If your shop happened to have three lemons on hand at the same time, from three different manufacturers, that all exhibited the same anomaly (what are the chances of that?), and was actually considering selling them, you really need to find a more reputable place to buy your gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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