Speaker Placement

[rosey1968]

I am have been playing with my speaker placement to discover the best placement for the best bass reproduction.   When I finished the basement 5 years ago I had no idea I would be getting a 2 channel set up so the room was built to maximize space, not audio reproduction.

About the room, it is long, 46 ft. feet in total.  It is 13 ft. wide.  The speakers sit in a section that is 8ft deep from the front of the speakers.   There is a room behind the speakers.  There are two “cutout” just in front of the speakers.   The ceiling is 7’ 8” high.  All walls are insulated and the ceiling was insulated with sound proofing. The couch I sit on is 10 ft. back from the speakers.  Not an optimal room for a 2 channel setup but it is what I have.

The speakers in the image below are KLF-20's and a C7 center.  All recently rebuilt with Crites crossovers and new driver diaphragms.  The 20 Cabinets have been reinforced on the inside.

I have moved the speakers back and forth, closers to the walls/corners and the set up below is what I find to have the best bass response.   I have tried several of the “golden triangle” formulas and that is how I ended up with this set up.

So my question… does anyone have any recommendations/comments/suggestions regarding my speaker placement to maximize bass reproduction.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[Ski Bum]

I like the placement...should help with imaging/soundstage, particularly near-field, with the space behind and to the sides of the speakers.  But for bass, you would need to move them closer to room boundaries.  I don't think that's what you want to do given the effort you've put in with their current locations.  

 

As to your question, bass is one of the toughest audio nuts to crack.  The room is large, and your mains have ripping dynamic range, so the ideal solution would be rather capable subwoofage, preferably an array of subs, and a front end with proper bass management capabilities.  Is adding subs an option for you?    

[HDBRbuilder]

OK, the most viable placement for better bass reinforcement with those speakers aiming towards where they are currently aiming would likely be in the "nook" on the left just below the light switch, and for the right speaker the same distance from the edge of that outside corner on the opposite side and maybe a bit closer to the wall there, since that is a long wall going to the right opposite wall for the right speaker.  The short wall in the left side "nook" will provide for MORE bass reinforcement than what is available on the right side long wall there, simply because it is CLOSER to an inside corner on the left.   So, the right speaker will need to be adjusted towards the wall in its placement moreso than the left speaker in order to provide EQUAL bass reinforcement.  IOW, the left speaker will be further out from the light-switch wall than the right speaker will be from ITS wall.

 

The center speaker then becomes the issue, unless you can leave it generally where it currently is...maybe on a "telephone table" in that spot...or something like that.  Most of your bass will generate from the flank speakers, anyway.

 

Another option MAY be to have the speakers facing the same way as your current sitting position faces, in the corners of the room behind the furniture (if there ARE any corners there, I can't tell from the pic displayed), and have the furniture turned around to face that wall which is currently behind the "sweet spot" listening position.  That way you can provide for the BEST option for placement, instead of having to compromise placement with the seating furniture laid out the way it is currently laid out.

 

ME?...I would move the seating furniture around 180 degrees, and put the main speakers into the corners of the un-pictured wall (if there are any corners)  and the center channel speaker in the center at the best height for listening.

[jjptkd]

Are these speakers hooked to the TV, just for music or both?

 

Are you trying to fill the whole room with sound or just a listening area in that room?

 

If you're trying to incorporate the TV into the system and watch concerts or videos at all I'd move everything to the back wall where the TV is. Put the left speaker into the corner and the right speaker into the space between the TV and the door. You could then move your couch to about where the left speaker is now.

 

If you want to keep the speakers close to where they are I'd move them along the side walls right at the corners of the openings so that the fronts aren't obstructed by side walls but you can toe them in so that the rear ports fire into the side wall behind the speakers. As to the center I wouldn't bother with it unless you plan on using it for the TV.

[derrickdj1]

That is a difficult setup looking at the room.  First, the room is long, so no room gain to help with the bass.  Second, it appears you sit 20+ ft from the speakers.  A couple of vented subwoofers would help(not sealed).  If this is strictly for 2 ch, I would put the speaker on the wall with the Rush poster.    Imaging will be improved with the speakers closer.  I know this is not what you wanted to hear but, the room could benefit from rearrangement.  Lots of work but, I had a similar situation in my basement.  I lived with it for months and finally got tired and moved everything around. Made new holes in the wall and patched old ones, ran wire in the ceiling, etc.  Now I am pleased with the sound and setup.

[Chris A]

A room sim using REW's "Room Simulator" with the dimensions of your room, the placement of your loudspeakers, and your listening position (walls are simulated using high absorption to approximate the wide room "transept" at the current loudspeaker positions:

 

 

 

Another room sim using the loudspeakers in the corners of the room:

 

 

 

I think that I'd put them into the corners of the room--not more than 18 inches from the front and side walls, move your listening position to 22 ft. 4 in. from the front wall (to eliminate those dips in response at 35 and 55 Hz), toe them in to your listening position (about 10-20 degrees) and use some 2 ft. x. 2ft.  acoustic absorption pads on the front wall and side walls immediately touching the loudspeakers at the height of the tweeter and midrange...

 

But that's just me...

 

Chris

[Chris A]

For reference, here's frequency response plot using the same simulation, but in my listening room at my listening positions.  It's pretty close to what I measure:

 

[rosey1968]

First let me say thank you all for all the suggestions.

 

Ski Bum...  I am never adverse to buying more equipment (sub)  ...  let me look into how make a sub work best with McIntosh C28/MC2105 set up.  

 

HDBRbuilder... great suggestion on putting them under the light switches... I could instantly hear an improvement.  I am sure I could play with this and move everything around and not have it make as much of an improvement.  Seriously, I will be leaving it like this for a while.

 

Now as far as you suggestion to move the couch 180 degrees... if you look at the pic above the nook on the right is where the door to the basement is but the nook on the right is where I have my stereo:

 

That nook is 8 ft wide... would you suggest putting it there?   

 

jjptkd... my set up is not hooked to the TV and I do not have plan to do that.   I am just interested in a listen area.  As for the center, I find it really completes the soundstage.

 

derrickdj1...  I am going to look into subs...  the room is due for a new couch which will help with the listening arrangement.

 

Chris... thanks for the analysis... one weekend I will have to try your suggestions.  

 

I have been listening to The first Firm album while typing and I am still blow away buy the difference with the movement to under the light switches.

 

Again, thanks for the suggestions... onto the sub forum...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Member's total reputation

[Ski Bum]

14 hours ago, rosey1968 said:

Ski Bum...  I am never adverse to buying more equipment (sub)  ...  let me look into how make a sub work best with McIntosh C28/MC2105 set up.  

 

You would need a processor between your pre and amplifier that could perform bass management duties, for example miniDSP.

[Heritage_Head]

Boundary gain is your friend. But with a sub near field it could work how you have it. 

[HDBRbuilder]

On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 7:26 PM, rosey1968 said:

First let me say thank you all for all the suggestions.

 

HDBRbuilder... great suggestion on putting them under the light switches... I could instantly hear an improvement.  I am sure I could play with this and move everything around and not have it make as much of an improvement.  Seriously, I will be leaving it like this for a while.

 

Now as far as you suggestion to move the couch 180 degrees... if you look at the pic above the nook on the right is where the door to the basement is but the nook on the right is where I have my stereo:

 

That nook is 8 ft wide... would you suggest putting it there?

 

I have been listening to The first Firm album while typing and I am still blow away buy the difference with the movement to under the light switches.

 

With the main speakers under the light switches, if you COULD move the long part of the sectional to where the short part currently is, which would have the short part facing to where the long part ORIGINALLY was, then this will happen for you:

1. The drivers of the left speaker will not have nearly as much of their sound absorbed by the furniture (currently where the end of the long sectional is).

2. You will still have a "sweet spot" seat.

3. Eliminating the blockage of sound currently being absorbed by the end of the long section of the sectional will actually IMPROVE your soundstage; you will get more clarity in your midrange and high-end from the left speaker, and the bass you HEAR from the left speaker will be less "muddied".

4. Then you just play a bit with toe-in or out to improve upon things even more.

[rosey1968]

HDBRbuilder, 

 

Unfortunately you are looking at the short end of the couch... I had it the other way and it was worse.

 

That couch is not long for this room... I am already working on the wife to get it upstairs so we can replace it with a new (single/regular)) couch.  A new couch will make things easier with this room/setup.

 

I love the miniDSP idea...

[Marvel]

On 11/10/2016 at 8:26 PM, rosey1968 said:

HDBRbuilder... great suggestion on putting them under the light switches... I could instantly hear an improvement.

 

That's pretty much how I had my LaScalas in my previous house. The open space between and behind the open area was a cross hallway. Front door on the right and kitchen on the left. Each LS fit into a corner  on the left and right. With the open space between them, the imaging was great and the bass was helped by the corners.

 

Bruce

[ATLAudio]

You might want to think about a sub. I got two sealed PSA XS15SE and they are stunning for music. That model is replaced by the S15, or S1500 for down or front firing options.