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Cornwall II's and III's - Comparison?


MikeGinIllinois

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19 hours ago, jjptkd said:

"A voice frequency (VF) or voice band is one of the frequencies, within part of the audio range, that is used for the transmission of speech.

 

In telephony, the usable voice frequency band ranges from approximately 300 Hz to 3400 Hz. It is for this reason that the ultra low frequency band of the electromagnetic spectrum between 300 and 3000 Hz is also referred to as voice frequency, being the electromagnetic energy that represents acoustic energy at baseband.

All of this is true.  One thing to note in EQ'ing speaker is that most of the correction to improve the SQ in voices is much higher up.  This is why people refer so much to the midrange.

 

3. Focus on vocal quality.  There is no simple 1-2-3 process to EQ’ing the spoken word.  Therefore, take these points into consideration;

  • Roll off the low frequencies if the proximity effect is causing unusual bassiness.
  • Don’t roll off so much low end as the voice loses some of its umph.  Yes, I’m using “umph” as a technical word.
  • Boost in the 1KHz to 5KHz range for improving intelligibility and clarity.
  • Boost in the 3Khz to 6Khz range to add brightness.  This can help with speakers with poor intonation.
  • Boost in the 4.5Khz to 6Khz range to add presence.  Note that too much boosting in this area can produce a thin lifeless sound.
  • Boost in the 100Hz to 250Hz for a boomy effect. http://www.behindthemixer.com/how-eq-speech-maximum-intelligibility/

 

It helps if the midrange driver does a good job in this range.  The use of auto EQ can be a plus in geting the SQ correct.

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Many of you have more experience with the I's and II's than I do, but I can offer the opinion that the III is a very good speaker and that a 'good deal' for a pair should be taken seriously. Unless you've been spoiled by klipschorns, you won't be disappointed. Best of luck.

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I don't know how they get there figures but I do know there are at least about 10 different ways to do it. A certain frequency, full bandwidth, at a meter, and on and on. The same way they measure amps, you can make it sound like a $199 sony HTR has 600 watts, but when it comes down to it it might have 50 per channel if your lucky. The real problem is there is no one standard.

On 11/12/2016 at 8:35 AM, Cinema_head said:

No one in the building knows how to measure a speakers stats?

Apparently you have never been there I take it ?  

If they can build and use an Anechoic chamber for testing and design there own horns I would guess they can measure efficiency, how they measure it..I have NO clue :o 

But you can go here and ask, the Historian, Jim Hunter was one of there engineers before becoming the historian of the museum.

 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/115-ask-the-historian/

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As far as the Cornwall lll, I really like mine, I have heard the others at different times but not at the same time so I would hate to guess.

 

I do know for sure they sound great in our bedroom playing with a HK 930 and cd player. They got moved out the living room when we moved in some monster speakers, our favorites go in the living room where they get the most use.

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33 minutes ago, dtel said:

I don't know how they get there figures but I do know there are at least about 10 different ways to do it. A certain frequency, full bandwidth, at a meter, and on and on. The same way they measure amps, you can make it sound like a $199 sony HTR has 600 watts, but when it comes down to it it might have 50 per channel if your lucky. The real problem is there is no one standard.

Apparently you have never been there I take it ?

If they can build and use an Anechoic chamber for testing and design there own horns I would guess they can measure efficiency, how they measure it..I have NO clue :o

But you can go here and ask, the Historian, Jim Hunter was one of there engineers before becoming the historian of the museum.

 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/115-ask-the-historian/

If I remember correctly, back in the day they measured one meter out from the speaker at 1 watt input for SPL...I have no idea what they do now-a-days.

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On 11/12/2016 at 9:35 AM, Cinema_head said:

Klipsch straight up lies. No other word to use. They know they do it and they do it anyways. 

In my world there are two sides to every story.  I try to remain objective and unbiased because there is so much I DON'T know.  Just because somebody from AVS posts a graph or chart with a cheap mic and some free software it doesn't mean the testing was the same as what Klipsch uses.

 

Rather than make a blanket statement that paints a company with a negative broad brush, perhaps there is more to gain by listing an example of your choosing, then asking if a representative from Klipsch would respond?  Is it possible there is a reasonable explanation that does not include "lies?"

 

Klipsch's chief engineer Roy Delgado posts here.  I don't know Mr Delgado personally, but it is my impression from reading his posts that he does not lie, and that his opinions are based in science and fact.  He might be able to provide "the other side of the story,"

 

Just a thought.

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2 hours ago, dtel said:

I don't know how they get there figures but I do know there are at least about 10 different ways to do it. A certain frequency, full bandwidth, at a meter, and on and on. The same way they measure amps, you can make it sound like a $199 sony HTR has 600 watts, but when it comes down to it it might have 50 per channel if your lucky. The real problem is there is no one standard.

Apparently you have never been there I take it ?  

If they can build and use an Anechoic chamber for testing and design there own horns I would guess they can measure efficiency, how they measure it..I have NO clue :o 

But you can go here and ask, the Historian, Jim Hunter was one of there engineers before becoming the historian of the museum.

 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/115-ask-the-historian/

Great idea man! Ill do it 

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

In my world there are two sides to every story.  I try to remain objective and unbiased because there is so much I DON'T know.  Just because somebody from AVS posts a graph or chart with a cheap mic and some free software it doesn't mean the testing was the same as what Klipsch uses.

 

Rather than make a blanket statement that paints a company with a negative broad brush, perhaps there is more to gain by listing an example of your choosing, then asking if a representative from Klipsch would respond?  Is it possible there is a reasonable explanation that does not include "lies?"

 

Klipsch's chief engineer Roy Delgado posts here.  I don't know Mr Delgado personally, but it is my impression from reading his posts that he does not lie, and that his opinions are based in science and fact.  He might be able to provide "the other side of the story,"

 

Just a thought.

I hear what your saying man. I battled pretty hard backing klipsch for a pretty good amount of time. I can promise you 1 random graph by some random avs poster wouldn't convince me of anything :). Most of the modern speakers tested have come back way off. In fact I couldn't find any new modern models that got 3p tested that didnt have bloated #s. Sensitivity is the big - mark. 3-6db at least off every time. They seem to not really do much with the older stuff they still make (as far as sending for 3p testing). Seen some in german but hard to understand. 

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1 hour ago, Cinema_head said:

I hear what your saying man. I battled pretty hard backing klipsch for a pretty good amount of time. I can promise you 1 random graph by some random avs poster wouldn't convince me of anything :). Most of the modern speakers tested have come back way off. In fact I couldn't find any new modern models that got 3p tested that didnt have bloated #s. Sensitivity is the big - mark. 3-6db at least off every time. They seem to not really do much with the older stuff they still make (as far as sending for 3p testing). Seen some in german but hard to understand. 

And I hear what you're saying as well and I appreciate what you are saying, I really do.  :)

 

I don't think the AVS'ers are a bunch of idiots, they take measurements and show charts and graphs to back their conclusions, which I respect.  I do think they over-generalize their results, such as saying "I measured a Heresy and the numbers were off of spec by -3db, therefore ALL Klipsch speakers are off by -3 db."  Maybe they are, maybe not.  How do I know?

 

My problem is my brain turns green when we get into the technical details of testing, I'm not even sure if I'm qualified to put forth the proper question.  I know sensitivity can be measured in different ways, such as full-band spectrum of sound and limited bands, all which makes a difference.  I also believe a giant company may have resources for testing that regular people don't have, such as anechoic chambers which would account for some differences. 

 

My point would be, I'm not nearly qualified to tell anybody which numbers are right.  :wacko: 

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3 hours ago, Weber said:

What are they?

For 2 Ch it's Oak MWM with 402 horns, active crossover and bi-amped, we love it, they were picked out by my wife after hearing a set. :emotion-21:

In the same room is a 6.1 ht with forte ll's and a Danley spud clone for a sub.

 

The room is 24' wide and 18' deep but open another 16' back behind the sofa.

 

pic is for people who's wives say Reference or Cornwall's are to big for the living room........just say look at this it could be worse.

house-08-1.JPG

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1 hour ago, Cinema_head said:

Dont want to start a huge war :unsure: been there done that

No problems, not a war at all, I just don't know how they measure so if I gave you an answer it would be a guess and I don't want to say anything someone else may think is the truth when I was just guessing and could easily be wrong.  :blush: But I know how much goes into Roy's job and he wouldn't :pwk_bs: about something so simple.

 

3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

Klipsch's chief engineer Roy Delgado posts here.  I don't know Mr Delgado personally, but it is my impression from reading his posts that he does not lie, and that his opinions are based in science and fact.  He might be able to provide "the other side of the story,"

 I do know Roy personally and I can say he would not lie about speakers or the science behind it, now he may :pwk_bs: me about other things but not about his passion. I will see him again in a couple of weeks and I will try to remember to ask. We talk about alot of things which some of it I can understand, as PWK was famous for saying, he tries to "bring it down to one cylinder" for me so I can somewhat git a grip on it. 

 

I must say the last couple of years of spending time with Roy has only gave me more respect for him than I already had, he's one of the good guys who has spent 30+ years designing horns and almost single handedly revived the PRO line and designed many of everyone's favorite speakers.

 

I am proud to call him a friend.........

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