Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 At least (i.e., delay the HF channel). Perhaps more like 5.2 or 5.3 ms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 More zoomed out. Sorry to be so slow/dense, thanks for you patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 If you had a tweeter, it looks like it is lagging the midrange (and down about 20-30 dB), so you need to put ~5.9 ms delay on the midrange channel, and 5.3 ms on the tweeter channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Chris A said: If you had a tweeter, it looks like it is lagging the midrange (and down about 20-30 dB), so you need to put ~5.9 ms delay on the midrange channel, and 5.3 ms on the tweeter channel. With the above corrections. Better, though not sure how to interpret the bottom zig zag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Recommend toggling the vertical frequency axis to show logarithmic frequency, then you'll be able to see the response below 1 kHz (and also up to 20 kHz if you're "Limits" are set correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 What is this telling me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 By the way, it now looks like 5.3 ms delay is a bit too much, maybe by 0.5 ms on the midrange and tweeter channels, judging from the bottom of your last spectrogram posted. The dotted line needs to smoothly bend away from the vertical axis from the midrange to bass--and if you play with it a while, you'll also see that the big spikes in the group delay plot will significantly decrease (which is good, because those group delay spikes are audible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, tromprof said: What is this telling me? Can you tell me what drivers/horns are playing and where you've set the crossovers? It looks like you're crossing over to something at 100-200 Hz that's lagging the bass bin by 7 ms. It would be really nice to see the vertical scale open up so you can see 10 Hz to 20 kHz. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Here is a composite of the spectrogram that I posted earlier, the controls dialog and the limits dialog open so you can check the settings and correct them to show the same limits, etc.: The screen shot function is on the upper left hand corner that looks like a camera and is annotated by "capture". You can set the size of the captured window in that dialog box that pops up. For spectrograms, I recommend ~1200 pixels image width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 The bass horn is a quarter pie with an Eminence 15c driver (60-600 HZ), JBL 2360 with EV DH1A drivers (600-6000 HZ), QSC horns with Dayton drivers (6000-20000 HZ). I hope this is the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I also wonder if the odd readings on the bass bin could be from the Integra pre/pro I use. It switches output on, with an audible mechanical click from the unit, when it detects a signal. There is a slight delay, maybe affecting the beginning of the sweep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I spent several hours today playing test tones and measuring with REW. After getting the LR channels sounding superb with the Xilica I decided to tackle the other channels in my HT. I am using a pair of Ashly 3.24cl units which are not nearly as user friendly or capable but having learned A LOT over the last day the results are impressive. Speakers have location-ally vanished. Everything is super clean, music and film sound awesome! Many, many thanks to Chris A for sharing his knowledge. I owe you a beer or 3 for sure. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 On 6/7/2019 at 11:18 AM, Chris A said: The same measurement, instead looking at the excess group delay plot: Chris How is this read? On my marked up version below is it the red circles where the Excess Group Delay (white line) goes from horizontal at zero to where to goes vertical or is it the aqua circles where the white and blue lines don't track evenly or possibly something else? What does a trace look like when the proper delay is applied. Without having a Spectrogram to fist look at how is below read? Meaning what is the delay and is it applied to the HF or LF in a 2-way system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Aqua for the low frequency, red for the high frequency (the HF is usually around zero ms group delay). You're looking at the excess group delay curve some distance away from the crossover region. In your plot with the red trace, your woofer/bass bin is trailing by 12-15 milliseconds relative to the HF driver/horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris A said: Aqua for the low frequency, red for the high frequency (the HF is usually around zero ms group delay). You're looking at the excess group delay curve some distance away from the crossover region. In your plot with the red trace, your woofer/bass bin is trailing by 12-15 milliseconds relative to the HF driver/horn. So are these next two statements for two different crossover points correct.... In the Green/White graph there is not much group delay around the 450 crossover point? Should I apply any delay, maybe because of the 182 difference? In the Blue/White Graph there is aprox 3ms around 280Hz and/or 6ms around 184Hz with the 350 crossover point If you were to go by the Red, Green, Blue group delay plots alone and no listening would you pick the 450 crossover point since it appears to not need any correcting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 You're showing about 8 ms delay on the low frequency channel (and it's unknown where your crossover frequency is located in this plot). I'd try 8 ms on the HF channel and iterate by 0.1 ms steps around that value until you find a happy medium (i.e., in-phase so that there aren't any cancellations in the crossover region--as seen in the spectrogram). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chris A said: You're showing about 8 ms delay on the low frequency channel (and it's unknown where your crossover frequency is located in this plot). I'd try 8 ms on the HF channel and iterate by 0.1 ms steps around that value until you find a happy medium (i.e., in-phase so that there aren't any cancellations in the crossover region--as seen in the spectrogram). Red = 200 crossover Blue = 350 crossover Green = 450 crossover Which one are you saying 8ms and around what frequency? As for the green one the XO point is 450 but the Group Delay looks pretty good (to me) there. It is back around 182Hz that I can put the cursor on and see/read the following differences 42.3 - 36.8 = 5.5ms. But again to me...and I know nothing, it looks pretty good around 450. It is a 6dB Bessel, so 1st order with lots of overlap, right? If I were to account for the 5ms delay around 182 wouldn't that, perhaps, produce more group delay in other areas like 200-600 which seems pretty good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 So you've got a two-way loudspeaker, right? You need to crank in 8 ms of delay on the HF channel. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfangled Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 I listen to 100% digital sources. I have a Parasound P6 playing middle man before the Xilica DSP in my system. Digital source (Roon) - converted to analog (Parasound P6) - converted to digital by the Xilica internally for processing - finally back to analog to Jubilees I noticed that the XD-4080 offers a AES/EBU I/O. Could I get something like a PI2AES to go digital from a Raspberry Pi into the XD-4080? I'd dial in the overall gain on the XD4080, and make fine adjustment within Roon. https://www.pi2design.com/store/p19/PI2AES_-_PRO_AUDIO_SHIELD.html If it worked it would end up with: Digital source (Roon) - Digital PI2AES straight into the Xilica XD4080 - final Analog conversion to Jubilees Do you think using AES into the XD-4080 have any improvement on sound? Am I being OCD trying to reduce the extra digital to analog conversion in my current setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfangled Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Has anyone tried inputting AES into an Xilica XD-4080 crossover? Seems like the message I posted above on Friday slipped through the cracks. I’m new to the forum and had to be approved by a mod as it was my first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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