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Chris A

Xilica XP active crossover integration into my system

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On 12/5/2016 at 1:21 PM, Chris A said:

You can look around for gently used Xilica XP series; these don't wear out.  The Xilica XPs are hi-fi compared to other crossovers that I've used.  Yamaha SP2060 (2-in, 6-out) has similar hi-fi performance--if you can find one used at a reasonable price.  I've found that being able to flatten in-room response, and set up the crossover phase delays is pretty important to achieve the performance that I talked about just above.  REW and a UMIK-1 microphone are your friends--it takes MUCH less time than it did doing it by trial-and-error.  I've found that it's quite easy to email your REW measurements, have someone else crunch the REW EQ optimization if you like, and send you back corrected the Xilica settings.  It usually takes one or two email exchanges back-and-forth, and you're done.  Talk to Joe (Cantilope) about our email exchanges for an independent assessment of how well it works.  You can also do it all yourself...

 

As with loudspeakers, if you buy new you pay a higher price--however, the prices have moderated to the point where you're going to see new prices that are significantly lower than ALK extreme slope passives.  The percentage decline in prices with age of the unit is similar to Klipsch loudspeakers, and there seems to be a rock-bottom price--like used Klipsch Heritage, etc.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=xilica+xp&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Axilica+xp

 

 

What would you think about the Pass' first watt B4 electronic cross over/attenuator?

Strickly for bi amping

 

 

B4 owners manual

 

 

B4-Front.jpg

 

B4-Rear.jpg

 

 

B4-Inside.jpg

 

Quote

 

 

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Just my humble opinion, but the Xilica can be had for cheaper and has a lot more capability.  Mine is controlling my L,R,C and LFE providing xovers and PEQs and time alignment for all of them.  A very versatile tool.

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I just need XO control for LR bi'amping... nothing else. I can get one of these for between $800-1000, Xilica seems more than that???

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15 minutes ago, Schu said:

I just need XO control for LR bi'amping... nothing else. 

I have PM'd you 2, one below and one slightly above your price.

 

Use it as you plan, but then on some rainy saturday you can try your wonderful amps coupled directly to your drivers.  See what that does for your holographic presentation.

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46 minutes ago, Schu said:

I just need XO control for LR bi'amping... nothing else. I can get one of these for between $800-1000, Xilica seems more than that???

The Xilica 3060 that I had was in your budget and it was BNIB. 

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You can always send the crossover back that you don't like.  My guess is that you'll want to hang onto the Xilica after you get everything dialed in. 

 

The First Watt B4 crossover is an analog unit (albeit, with NP's fingerprints on it). He built that unit with full-range drivers and a time-aligned bass bin in mind. 

40e5a13a22cd760d40abc5fe1f2439ec.jpg

 

However, the advantages of the PEQs, delays and shelf filters of the Xilicas are difficult to overestimate.

 

Jub TAD Channel PEQs for Joe.GIF

2509.png

 

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Bumping for those new to using Xilica DSP crossovers...

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On 23-11-2016 at 4:09 PM, Chris A said:

As was expected today when I reran Audyssey to reset the channel "distance" delays and channel gains, I found that I needed to compensate for the added delays of the Jubilees relative to the center and surround channels - about 2 feet of apparent delay was added that I had to compensate for.  Additionally, the system throughput delay difference between the EV Dx38s and the Yamaha SP2060 crossovers (used before the XIlica replaced them in the setup) was apparent in the channel delay changes--the Xilica has one system delay value for all channels, thus making it easier to estimate any delays based on physical measurements in-room.  (Note that I turn off any EQ or dynamic EQ that Audyssey tries to insert into the system.)

 

Chris

Chris

 

Do you also have a guide explaining on how to integrate REW and Audyssey into the same system? I mean, how do I know Audyssey isn't throwing in extra EQ etc.. You only use it for delays (and to adjust gains easily) right? How did you know how to compensate for the delay, only physical in room distance? Or? 

 

Also would this be the correct way to go about setting it up:

 

Run REW and setup the active 2-way LaScalas K510/HF200. Question: what amplifier and input do I best use at this stage? Do I run it through the AVR to the correct amp from the start, as to simulate how the setup is gonna be eventually. Or do I run REW directly from the laptop into the amp (and bypass the AVR at this stage), as to have as little influence from the AVR on the curves/PEQ. And does it matter how good the quality of the connection is at this stage (as in: a regular RCA=>Jack into my laptop vs high bit audio connection via HDMI)

 

Secondly: run Audyssey completely without allowing any additional (dynamic etc) EQ. Reset everything except the distances. Then check those distances. Question: what do I do with the speakers that are not connected to a processor, but are directly amplified by my AVR? Measure them too and apply some sort of EQ via the Audyssey application? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Droogne said:

Do you also have a guide explaining on how to integrate REW and Audyssey into the same system? I mean, how do I know Audyssey isn't throwing in extra EQ etc.. You only use it for delays (and to adjust gains easily) right? How did you know how to compensate for the delay, only physical in room distance? Or? 

Basically, the text that you quoted from my earlier post was a bit of a "red herring" to those that are simply setting up their systems for the first time.  I was reporting that the other two DSP crossover types that I used before getting the Xilica XP-8080 that I'm using now (i.e., a Yamaha SP2060 and two EV DX38s)  had different system throughput delays than the Xilica.  This is typical for DSP processors--they all seem to have different minimum (insertion) delays. 

 

I run Audyssey from my preamp after changes in loudspeaker positions or changing out DSP crossovers to verify what the delays should be that it measures.  I then take the results from the Audyssey run and hand update the manual delays in the preamp--thus turning off Audyssey altogether but still using its delay settings.  THe post you quoted simply was saying that fact.  Since I basically turn off Audyssey, then there isn't any issue with Dynamic EQ or Audyssey EQ being on.  In any case, the preamp/processor that I use allows the user to manually turn off the check box for these options. 

 

I also check the channel gains manually using a hand-held SPL meter or the REW microphone, which seems to give more fine-grained adjustment than the version of Audyssey can provide on my preamp/processor.  If you've got REW up and running with the calibration microphone still connected, you can use REW to measure to 1/10th of a dB, something the hand-held SPL meter doesn't tell you (1 dB is the best that it shows), and I've found that Audyssey seems to be doing its channel gain calculations after it does its EQ and Dynamic EQ calculations.  So if you turn those off, the channel gains that it has calculated will no longer be accurate (as I've found).  But note that the version of Audyssey that I have on my pre/pro is simply a terrible choice for the loudspeakers and room.  It's much worse than using nothing at all other than just your ears.  YMMV. 

 

I've written a lot on the subject, and have basically polarized the readers on the issue, so by way of full disclosure, I acknowledge this issue.  Note that for some people, their versions of Audyssey seem to work better, especially for bass frequencies below the Schroeder frequency of their rooms (below 200 Hz).  I've found that if you want accurate measurements in-room, you have to place your microphone to within 1 metre of the loudspeakers, then back off to 3-4 metres measurement distance for frequencies below 100 Hz--i.e., at the "listening positions"---because this is in the modal frequency band of the room. The in-room measurements are no longer "minimum phase".  If you try to adjust EQ in the modal region of the room, all you can really do is reduce peaking response and do some ramping EQ, but you cannot boost frequency response nulls below the Schroeder frequency. 

 

Just for clarification, my room's calculated and measured Schroeder frequency is about 105 Hz, due to the dimensions of the room and its RT60 damping vs. frequency, so I have to correct the loudspeaker frequency response in-room via EQ down to that frequency before the strong modal region begins to take effect.

 

5 hours ago, Droogne said:

Also would this be the correct way to go about setting it up:

 

Run REW and setup the active 2-way LaScalas K510/HF200. Question: what amplifier and input do I best use at this stage? Do I run it through the AVR to the correct amp from the start, as to simulate how the setup is gonna be eventually. Or do I run REW directly from the laptop into the amp (and bypass the AVR at this stage), as to have as little influence from the AVR on the curves/PEQ. And does it matter how good the quality of the connection is at this stage (as in: a regular RCA=>Jack into my laptop vs high bit audio connection via HDMI)

 

Secondly: run Audyssey completely without allowing any additional (dynamic etc) EQ. Reset everything except the distances. Then check those distances. Question: what do I do with the speakers that are not connected to a processor, but are directly amplified by my AVR? Measure them too and apply some sort of EQ via the Audyssey application? 

 

I use all the setup electronics as they will be used in the signal chain during calibration so as to get a baseline on what is actually happening. 

 

If you want to check the response of each channel of amplification/loudspeaker reproduction at the DSP crossover inputs separately after the all-up settings are complete, you can certainly do that.  If you notice any issues between the two measurements (before and after your AVR), then you've probably got an issue with some settings still being active in your preamp that you didn't intend to have on.

 

Chris

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Shout out to @Chris A for his help the last couple days guiding me as I work to intergrate my xp-4080. Thanks a million Chris really appreciate your help!

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Thanks Jerry.  For me the Xilica opens up another dimension of audio, and when combined with the sound quality of Klipsch Professional speakers (in this case a pair of KPT-942s) yields truly outstanding results. 

 

And like you mentioned--using the Xilica is a lot of fun, too. 

 

Chris

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Bump this thread back from the dead.   I'll be joining this group in a week or so.   The only products remotely similar to this that I tried were the driverack and mini DSP.   I strongly disliked what both did to the audio quality of the systems in which they were introduced.   I spoke to Xilica on the phone for some time and decided to give XP3060 a go.    I'll keep me eye on this one as I found this thread useful.   Thanks @Chris A.   Always interesting to see what you and a few others that are very technical have to post.   It helps And is appreciate.  

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18 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

The only products remotely similar to this that I tried were the driverack and mini DSP.   I strongly disliked what both did to the audio quality of the systems in which they were introduced.

I don't know about either but I know the EV DX38 is what I still use and many others used 10 years ago till today, later replaced by a Xilica, I doubt you would have any problem with audio quality with either. Most people use them on about the most sensitive horn you can get with no problems.  

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8 hours ago, dtel said:

I don't know about either but I know the EV DX38 is what I still use and many others used 10 years ago till today, later replaced by a Xilica, I doubt you would have any problem with audio quality with either. Most people use them on about the most sensitive horn you can get with no problems.  

Glad to hear.  The all in one digital box will be new to me, but I have high expectations.   

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I think Chris has convinced me to go back to Xilica too. I will be looking for another xp3060, and a 4080 this time over the next few months (I need to get my speakers made first though ). It will cost me double but it seems everyone says they are much better than the minidsps, so I will make my final crossover be a Xilica again.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

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28 minutes ago, ellisr63 said:

I think Chris has convinced me to go back to Xilica too. I will be looking for another xp3060, and a 4080 this time over the next few months (I need to get my speakers made first though ). It will cost me double but it seems everyone says they are much better than the minidsps, so I will make my final crossover be a Xilica again.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
 

Sound quality was night and day better on the Xilica than mini DSP for me.  HUGE difference.  

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I liked my old 3060... I just did not like setting it up from the front panel. It was very co fusing to me with their menu trees.

Sound quality was night and day better on the Xilica than mini DSP for me.  HUGE difference.  


Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

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8 minutes ago, ellisr63 said:

I liked my old 3060... I just did not like setting it up from the front panel. It was very co fusing to me with their menu trees.

 


Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
 

 

I agree with you 100% there. The digital interface makes life much easier.   Well designed product, priced well and sounds fantastic.   Sounded ALMOST as good as the bryston 10b crossover I had prior (this is a good thing in my book, no real sonic signature of its own). 

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3 hours ago, ellisr63 said:

I just did not like setting it up from the front panel.

 

3 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

The digital interface makes life much easier. 

Yes you HAVE to use the XConsole app. Mucho mejor  IMHO. The front panel controls while not totally unusable are cumbersome and then after a cocktail or two fughettabouditt.

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