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Which Heresy they are?


thunderdome

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Hello all members,

 

This is my first topic and post on this forum, my english is a bit weak and rusty, so please be tolerant :)

 

Recently i found white heresy speakers... seller didn't know what he was sellin' - to be honest i didn't know what i was buyin' too. So a bit akward situation. I bought them with Arcus TL 220 (set Arcus + Klipsch) - to be frank the 'little ones' - heresy... i paid for them almost nothing...

 

I plugged them in into an oldschool Grundig A9000 (Marantz PM-80, with slightly bigger transformer), 

I was literally blown away with the sound quality, on everyday use i'm using Quadral Montan MK V - or maybe i should say i was using :) 

 

They are true legend speakers, that's for sure. In the past i had some JBL Studio monitor speakers...

 

But to the point,

 

Please help me, which heresy they are, i'm confused because they are first of all white inside and outside. The best part is i've never seen heresy with non-removal front grille, that's my biggest confusion.

 

Crossover - Type C

Lowrange - K-22 with red foam (alnico?)

Midrange - K-55V (alnico?)

Tweeter - K-77 (alnico?)

They have non-removal grille - is that normal?

No other information gathered, no backplate info, no nothing - they been repainted, at least outside.

 

Please give me more info, they play phenomenal.

 

 

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First off...welcome to the Forum.

 

Any pics of the outside of them?

 

It appears the cabinets were either rebuilt, or NEW cabinets were built for them from what I have seen of the interior pics you posted.  In order for me to be able to definitely tell you what you have, I will need to see some outside pics of the cabinets.  The glue blocks in the interior seem to have been replaced, at the very least. It appears they were first stapled-in place after the cabinet panels were assembled and painted white....and then screwed-in.  Also the glue blocks are pine, instead of ripped plywood...pine glue block use in Heresys ended about the time I got to Klipsch in 1976.  More pics will provide the construction details...especially pics showing the OUTSIDE of the cabinets...which will give more clues to  the type of cabinet assembly.

 

What I am able to tell from the drivers is that these are pre-1976 Heresy components.  The crossover network has black leads going from it to the rear terminals, so those are at least not original wiring....whereas the rest of the crossover network wiring is original.

 

What I can tell from one of the pics is that the construction is NOT a mitered cabinet...that fact with the above details about the components makes me think they are likely HDBR Heresys...or a cabinet rebuild to make them more like HBR cabinets.  Also, the woofer and horn lenses were ORIGINALLY mounted using wood screws, instead machine bolts with nuts.  The foam padding was not used at the same time your components were being used...so that is likely a much later addition.

 

C type crossover was replaced with E-type crossover in 1975 (E-type just has the woofer wired out of phase with the other drivers, compared to its predecessor).

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Your English is just fine.  Welcome to the forum.

 

Those are Heresy I, although they didn't use a Roman I back then.

 

I see you have an Alnico magnet K-77.  A lot of people like them over the M type.  And you have an E type crossover which is typical.

 

I'm not sure but I think the front grill was not removable on those units.

 

The white wiring in the crossover seems a bit odd to me but someone here can confirm.  The crossovers we're told were not made at the factory but by Klipsch workers at home.  

 

The stuffing looks to me like it is not from the factory but await confirmation from others here.

 

I'm not aware of any being made in white at the factory.  They might have started as decorator models.  You'll get more answers in a few hours or days here on the forum.

 

WMcD

 

HDBR was typing at the same time.

 

 

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The K-55-V places it in the mid-70's to early 1980's.  I don't know exactly when the K-55-M replaced it but I'm thinking around 1982 or 1983.

 

Is there a serial number?  That will tell us Month, Day and Year.

+++

 

Welcome to the Klipsch forum!  :emotion-21:  :emotion-19:  :emotion-46:

 

Your speakers are great, congratulations!  And, your English is just fine.  :cool:

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Whoa, i didn't expected that, so much feedback, thanks!

 

Ok, let's go.

 

8 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

First off...welcome to the Forum.

 

Any pics of the outside of them?  It appears the cabinets were either rebuilt, or NEW cabinets were built for them from what I have seen of the interior pics you posted.  In order for me to be able to definitely tell you what you have, I will need to see some outside pics of the cabinets.  The glue blocks in the interior seem to have been replaced, at the very least. It appears they were first stapled-in place after the cabinet panels were assembled and painted white....and then screwed-in.  Also the glue blocks are pine, instead of ripped plywood...pine glue block use in Heresys ended about the time I got to Klipsch in 1976.  More pics will provide the construction details...especially pics showing the OUTSIDE of the cabinets...which will give more clues to  the type of cabinet assembly.

 

I forgot to mention that the ports are from visaton, normal standard ports with 'clipping' (?) points (-/+) for connecting the wires.

Photos will be below :)

 

5 minutes ago, WMcD said:

Your English is just fine.  Welcome to the forum.

 

Those are Heresy I, although they didn't use a Roman I back then.

 

I see you have an Alnico magnet K-77.  A lot of people like them over the M type.  And you have an E type crossover which is typical.

 

I'm not sure but I think the front grill was not removable on those units.

 

 

 

Thank you. Personally i like AlNiCo more, than normal magnet too... especially with JBL 4311 WX-A (they had it... i remember that... punch...)

 

7 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

The K-55-V places it in the mid-70's to early 1980's.  I don't know exactly when the K-55-M replaced it but I'm thinking around 1982 or 1983.

 

Is there a serial number?  That will tell us Month, Day and Year.

+++

 

Welcome to the Klipsch forum!  :emotion-21:  :emotion-19:  :emotion-46:

 

Your speakers are great, congratulations!  And, your English is just fine.  :cool:

 

Like i mention in my first post, they have no info on back. Nothing at all.

 

 

 

About that outside / cabinets, personally i think they are original, cause i can see same 'connection' on plywood on the corners of the cabinets, i really don't know how to write it, so here goes the pictures.

 

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OK...from what I can tell here is likely what you have.  You have an early C-type crossover Heresy.  I would put money on these next few statements:  It originally came as a mitered cabinet!  But something happened to that cabinet and the components were removed and a butt-jointed cabinet was built for it.  It uses its ORIGINAL mitered cabinet motorboard, which has its grille cloth wrapped around it and stapled at the back side of the motorboard.  That motorboard is screwed to the glue blocks around the front perimeter of the cabinet, just like it was on the original mitered cabinet.  The inside corner glue blocks were not necessary, but were used in the re-build because the original mitered cabinet had them that way.  The rear glue blocks are as they should be.  Pine was used for the glue blocks because that is what the original mitered cabinet had.  The speaker wire terminals on your speaker back panels were used because they more convenient to deal with than screw terminals.

 

In other words, you have a replacement cabinet Heresy.  Providing the interior dimensions match the original interior dimensions, they are fine.  And, since attention was paid to build the new boxes exactly as the original ones were, I feel confident the panels were sawn with interior dimensions correctly figured into the equation.  Mitered cabinets get damaged easily...it happens.

 

I would advise to use the 8 guage wire if it will fit into the holes in the spring-lock terminals.

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16 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

OK...from what I can tell here is likely what you have.  You have an early C-type crossover Heresy.  I would put money on these next few statements:  It originally came as a mitered cabinet!  But something happened to that cabinet and the components were removed and a butt-jointed cabinet was built for it.  It uses its ORIGINAL mitered cabinet motorboard, which has its grille cloth wrapped around it and stapled at the back side of the motorboard.  That motorboard is screwed to the glue blocks around the front perimeter of the cabinet, just like it was on the original mitered cabinet.  The inside corner glue blocks were not necessary, but were used in the re-build because the original mitered cabinet had them that way.  The rear glue blocks are as they should be.  Pine was used for the glue blocks because that is what the original mitered cabinet had.  The speaker wire terminals on your speaker back panels were used because they more convenient to deal with than screw terminals.

 

In other words, you have a replacement cabinet Heresy.  Providing the interior dimensions match the original interior dimensions, they are fine.  And, since attention was paid to build the new boxes exactly as the original ones were, I feel confident the panels were sawn with interior dimensions correctly figured into the equation.  Mitered cabinets get damaged easily...it happens.

 

I would advise to use the 8 guage wire if it will fit into the holes in the spring-lock terminals.

I don't understand words: mitered cabinet, i don't get it, please inlight me. Is it something with connection of wood pieces? 

 

Thank you for information, it's like, believe or not - GOLD to me. I loved them since i listened to them firstly. This community is real gold repository of knowledge. 

 

Dimmensions are matching 100% :)

 

There is something else, when i got them 5 days ago, they were in grey colour. Nothing but paint was changed. Maybe they were grey from production line? ...

 

I knew that you, or someone else will pick up the thin cable thing... i get it :)

 

They play very fast, and have real life in themselves. Nothing leaks, they are very strong and have phenomenal bass and midrange. Better than JBL studio ....

 

Edit:

I get it, the mitered thing. Sorry for confusion.

 

Edited by thunderdome
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One more thing, since the panels were obviously painted white on the INSIDE prior to the cabinet assembly, AND there is no evidence of glue squeeze-out on the glue blocks, I would ADVISE this:

 

Take a tube of silicone caulk, and run a small continuous bead along every seam of the glue block joinery INSIDE the cabinet, where the blocks meet the wooden panels, and wipe it into the seams, then let it set-up.  WHY?  This will guarantee the cabinet being MORE air-tight, whether or not the glue blocks were actually glued in or not.  If those glue blocks WERE glued in, the white paint put on the panels prior to assembly will not keep that glue itself from sealing the cabinet, since glue does not adhere well to painted wood.

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14 minutes ago, thunderdome said:

I don't understand words: mitered cabinet, i don't get it, please inlight me. Is it something with connection of wood pieces?

 

Dimmensions are matching 100% :)

Good thing on the interior dimensions matching the original cabinet dimensions!

 

Mitered cabinet is when the outside corners have panels sawn at 45 degree edges where they meet the edges of each other, front to rear, on all four of those panels: tops, bottoms, and both sides.  like Weber's pic above.  Make sense?

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7 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

One more thing, since the panels were obviously painted white on the INSIDE prior to the cabinet assembly, AND there is no evidence of glue squeeze-out on the glue blocks, I would ADVISE this:

 

Take a tube of silicone caulk, and run a small continuous bead along every seam of the glue block joinery INSIDE the cabinet, where the blocks meet the wooden panels, and wipe it into the seams, then let it set-up.  WHY?  This will guarantee the cabinet being MORE air-tight, whether or not the glue blocks were actually glued in or not.  If those glue blocks WERE glued in, the white paint put on the panels prior to assembly will not keep that glue itself from sealing the cabinet, since glue does not adhere well to painted wood.

 

In order to do this, i think i need to rip-off the grille material since it's stapled in the inside of the cabinet, yes?

 

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5 minutes ago, thunderdome said:

 

In order to do this, i think i need to rip-off the grille material since it's stapled in the inside of the cabinet, yes?

 

Not at all...just run a larger silicone caulk bead there and wipe it into where the grille cloth meets the glue blocks around the inside of the cabinet.  That will provide sufficient seal at that location.  Silicone caulk remains pliable pretty much forever.

 

Heresy speakers do NOT have to be TOTALLY airtight, but the closer to airtight they are, the less likely the short excursion woofer will be to slam itself to death when playing them at high volume.  The air-tightness of the Heresy cabinet is a preventive measure to keep that from happening.  As the woofer cone moves forward, it creates a slight vacuum effect, limiting its forward excursion, and as the woofer cone moves rearward, it creates a slight overpressure, also limiting its excursion....so the slamming won't happen.  In the era which your drivers were used in MITERED Heresy cabinets, the grille cloth was wrapped around the motorboard and stapled onto its inside prior to installation into the cabinet.  It worked just fine...and it still SHOULD do so.

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7 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Not at all...just run a larger silicone caulk bead there and wipe it into where the grille cloth meets the glue blocks around the inside of the cabinet.  That will provide sufficient seal at that location.  Silicone caulk remains pliable pretty much forever.

Ok, ok i get it.

 

But i think i will rip them off anyway, i want to look at them. That sounds funny, but that's truth. When i rip it off, it will make a influence on sound? What you think?

 

Generally those speakers made me curious about that brand, i've never listened it before. I must talk to that klipsch distributor in my country (Poland) since i've met him (once, i've never talk to this guy...), i need to borrow Heresy III. I work in hifi 'audio field' (only new stuff) so it won't be a problem i guess.

 

This pair i will give to my father, that will be a good move. Only when Heresy III will be sounding at least that phenomenal.

Edited by thunderdome
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9 minutes ago, thunderdome said:

And weird thing i found in the net,

 

I saw some  heresy speakers without mitered cabinet. They are younger than mine, that's why? Or just cause of the type c crossover?

The red pleated surrounds on your woofers tells the era in which those drivers were used.  That combined with the C-type crossover narrows the time-frame, but cannot actually give the year...just a time frame.

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8 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

The red pleated surrounds on your woofers tells the era in which those drivers were used.  That combined with the C-type crossover narrows the time-frame, but cannot actually give the year...just a time frame.

Ok,

 

I get it. Please tell me one more thing, You've wrote:

 

19 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

In the era which your drivers were used in MITERED Heresy cabinets, the grille cloth was wrapped around the motorboard and stapled onto its inside prior to installation into the cabinet.  It worked just fine...and it still SHOULD do so.

 

If i'm understanding properly, the non-removal grille thing is normal?

 

I'm really sorry for my stupid question, but You are my wikipedia right now. Really. Give me your address, i will send you superb polish beer. I'm not kidding. :)

 



I would just leave the grille cloth alone, if they were MY speakers.

I will leave them. That's the right thing. 

Edited by thunderdome
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The time frame your speakers were built, if they were NOT mitered cabinets, then the cabinets would look like this pic WITHOUT the grille cloth.

 

Keep in mind that you will NEVER see another pair like this, with matching panels in this type of build, unless it was built for Klipsch employees BY Klipsch employees.

 

But the build CONSTRUCTION is how they were made if not mitered cabinets when your drivers were in use, OK?

flame twin left.jpg

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