DaMuffinMan Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 hour ago, wdecho said: To answer you question about the Poddwatt, yes. Mono's are considered better for soundstage whether tube or SS. I would highly recommend the Poddwatt kit for a successful build unless you are confident on building from a schematic and sourcing the parts yourself for your build. With the complete kit you would only need to know how to solder and follow instructions explicitly. You will be rewarded with an excellent all around tube amp. The Poddwatt is a PP but operated in Class A whereas most PP are not. Building on a board is much easier than point to point build for a newbie. I much prefer point to point when it comes to a tube build but this is after a few SS builds using boards first. Thanks for the response. So Monos are the way to go, do you have to house them separately?. Can you incorporate them into the same base (case)? And am I correct that a DHT is a direct heated triode? What is an IDHT ? The Poddwatt looks like a good place to start (is there a schematic anywhere) and then modify it to my liking. I don't like the boards, I would most likely go point to point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Mono amps will be a better idea sonically, (no crosstalk interference from a left and right side in a chassis) but will cost more money in materials. Examples: You'll need two power transformers instead of one. You'll need two chassis'...etc... Here, check out this website...http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/. A directly heated triode is heated with a filament which serves as a cathode as well. A IDHT has a wire, (sort of like a filament, but they call it a heater wire/wires now) which is inside a metal tube. Made of nickel or whatever and called a cathode. As the heater wire (actually two wires) and cathode tube warm up, the cathode tube is coated with a sort of aluminum oxide. As the tube turns orange hot, the oxide heats/reacts and the electrons are boiled off the cathode tube in a evaporation type of process. This cathode also serves as an element in indirectly heated tubes. I'm not special in tube theory...so there ya go... It's nice to know how to read a schematic. Search online for schematic symbols of various types of vacuum tubes. The best way to learn this sort of stuff, is to befriend a local person who happens to be into audio. Like a retired electrical engineer who craves audio, or old radio/television repair guy like Maynard...or a retired audio engineer if you can get lucky enough. Most will probably appreciate the company, and you'll will learn more things more quickly with a hands on approach. Having a guy with knowledge helping you out with a tube amp project, is really valuable. Especially if one wants to scratch build a first tube amplifier point to point without any sort of problems...murphy's law will get ya... Unless it's a tube amp kit...but that's like building a plastic model car. Place part here, solder...place wire here...there just isn't much to learn from it. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMuffinMan Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, mike stehr said: Mono amps will be a better idea sonically, (no crosstalk interference from a left and right side in a chassis) but will cost more money in materials. Examples: You'll need two power transformers instead of one. You'll need two chassis'...etc...Can't you use 1 Power Transformer? Here, check out this website...http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/. Thanks! A directly heated triode is heated with a filament which serves as a cathode as well. A IDHT (What is an IDHT) has a wire, (sort of like a filament, but they call it a heater wire/wires now) which is inside a metal tube. Made of nickel or whatever and called a cathode. As the heater wire (actually two wires) and cathode tube warm up, the cathode tube is coated with a sort of aluminum oxide. As the tube turns orange hot, the oxide heats/reacts and the electrons are boiled off the cathode tube in a evaporation type of process. This cathode also serves as an element in indirectly heated tubes. Thats what I learned by watching this video RCA Tubes I'm not special in tube theory...so there ya go... It's nice to know how to read a schematic. Search online for schematic symbols of various types of vacuum tubes. Will do! The best way to learn this sort of stuff, is to befriend a local person (do we have a directory or anything on this forum, where people are located) who happens to be into audio. Like a retired electrical engineer who craves audio, or old radio/television repair guy like Maynard...or a retired audio engineer if you can get lucky enough. Most will probably appreciate the company, and you'll will learn more things more quickly with a hands on approach. Having a guy with knowledge helping you out with a tube amp project, is really valuable. Especially if one wants to scratch build a first tube amplifier point to point without any sort of problems...murphy's law will get ya... Unless it's a tube amp kit...but that's like building a plastic model car. Place part here, solder...place wire here...there just isn't much to learn from it. Exactly my thoughts! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 2 hours ago, DaMuffinMan said: Mono amps will be a better idea sonically, (no crosstalk interference from a left and right side in a chassis) but will cost more money in materials. Examples: You'll need two power transformers instead of one. You'll need two chassis'...etc...Can't you use 1 Power Transformer? You can have the two mono amplifiers for right and left, and have them share the same power supply/power supply transformer. Which would include another chassis for the power supply. I don't know if IDHT stands for indirectly heated tube or triode. I do know that a 12AX7 is an example of a indirectly heated dual triode tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 4 hours ago, DaMuffinMan said: Thanks for the response. So Monos are the way to go, do you have to house them separately?. Can you incorporate them into the same base (case)? And am I correct that a DHT is a direct heated triode? What is an IDHT ? The Poddwatt looks like a good place to start (is there a schematic anywhere) and then modify it to my liking. I don't like the boards, I would most likely go point to point. I prefer monoblocks - the beefier the power supply, the better (IMHO).....two power transformers, more filter caps, etc. IDHT = InDirectly Heated Triode. Not sure how much of a difference you will hear with point to point wiring vs. PCB? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 11 hours ago, mike stehr said: old radio/television repair guy like Maynard... Mike Old? Who's old? My brain still thinks I'm 17 (it's only the rest of me which disagrees)! An excellent source of assistance is an antique radio club (every state has at least one). Most of those guys are not only familiar with tube electronics, but many are often tube audiophiles as well. Where are you located? William is of course correct. There are so many potential pitfalls when building an amp from scratch that it is best to start out very gently! I know I posted these before, but here they are again in case you missed them. They are well worth considering as first builds: http://spudkit.com/ http://bottlehead.com/product/single-ended-experimenters-kit-3-for-headphones-sensitive-speakers/ Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/23/2016 at 5:41 AM, tube fanatic said: Old? Who's old? My brain still thinks I'm 17 (it's only the rest of me which disagrees)! Whoops! My apologies! Maybe retired would have been more the polite/appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 On 11/22/2016 at 3:40 PM, DaMuffinMan said: Is there a way to do a hybrid between the two? These were designed by a former Klipsch forum member, and there are some folks here who have built his amps. Tony, who is on here has a prototype that Jeff built, a single chassis PP 2A3 amp. These would be pricey to build, but the majority of the cost is in the transformers. http://www.magnequest.com/diy_lessard_2a3pp.htm Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 saved that link, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 On 11/22/2016 at 2:40 PM, DaMuffinMan said: Is there a way to do a hybrid between the two? Biamp with PP on bass and SET on highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Here is a question for some of you tube guys, can a tube amp have to much power? With to much power will you miss the magic with what happens with mild clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, derrickdj1 said: With too much power will you miss the magic with what happens with mild clipping. ??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 It's been said that the mild tube amp clipping is desirable. This is suppose to add warmth and mild sweetness to the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Your hypothesis is true if one is indeed using his amp as some from of compressor. It's not true if the amp has the power to accurately reproduce the input, including transient peaks, which takes far more power than most realize. This applies to all amps by the way, tube or ss. I suspect that most of us who prefer SET do so because of performance at the other end of the envelope, way down low, where things such as the utter absence of crossover distortion and no requirements for nfb come into play. Dollars to donuts that any of our flea watt wonders are clipping the crap off transients, in spite of our use of high sensitivity speakers at what most of us would consider moderate listening levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, wdecho said: Odd harmonics are what sound like fingers on a blackboard. Or like shattering glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 It's nice to see a reference to JFL. I'm still enjoying the 2A3 that I bought from him. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 On 12/2/2016 at 11:57 AM, Ski Bum said: Your hypothesis is true if one is indeed using his amp as some from of compressor. It's not true if the amp has the power to accurately reproduce the input, including transient peaks, which takes far more power than most realize. This applies to all amps by the way, tube or ss. I suspect that most of us who prefer SET do so because of performance at the other end of the envelope, way down low, where things such as the utter absence of crossover distortion and no requirements for nfb come into play. Dollars to donuts that any of our flea watt wonders are clipping the crap off transients, in spite of our use of high sensitivity speakers at what most of us would consider moderate listening levels. All audio systems need to be designed in reverse beginning with the speakers, followed by a consideration of the listening position/level, types of music, etc. Any amp which clips during normal use is under-powered for the job and is not appropriate. Take, for example, my own system with RF-15s. At my often used 6 foot listening position, only approx. 5 MILLIwatts/channel is needed to give me a level of around 71 db. If I consider 20 db of headroom as being sufficient, an amp which can deliver half a watt without clipping is fine. And, if the amp's distortion when delivering half a watt is very low, there are no issues. To me, even hearing a 90 db transient makes me a bit uncomfortable. I find that level too loud. Obviously, the power needs of CWs and LSs (the most popular Heritage Series speakers I've encountered) are significantly lower. This is why I scratch my head when guys tell me that they invested in 250 wpc SS equipment to use with their Klipsch speakers at fairly low listening levels in small to medium size rooms. It makes no sense to me, but I'm just an old crab! Maynard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in full agreement with your methods and approach to this, Maynard, but when it comes to tubes, there is a bit more wiggle room. SE types can be pushed up to 5-10% thd before becoming objectionable, pp probably a bit less than that but considerably more than solid state, and any sort of amp that exhibits the extended, odd order clipping should never never be pushed hard enough to clip. You could conceivably get away with listening to your RF-15's louder (and still never shred your ears...unclipped copious power via high sensitivity/high output speakers in a domestic environment is downright dangerous to your hearing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 There's no question that 5-10% thd is livable. In fact, there are guys using SEPs without any nfb who really enjoy the sound of the higher distortion. My point is that it is just as easy to design for low distortion, so why not go that way? With SETs especially, it is easy to go for very low distortion (I'm talking about 2nd harmonic levels of even 1% at full output into a matched load and around 3% into a load that's 50% lower). And, what's interesting to me is that as gorgeous and lush SETs sound when exhibiting higher distortion levels (the Darling 1626 amp, with its approx. 15% 2nd harmonic distortion at full output, comes to mind- guys who use them say they are amazing), they often retain those magical properties when the distortion is extremely low. It makes for some very interesting comparisons! Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMuffinMan Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Greetings, I have been doing a lot of researching and reading. and have a few questions if you Gentleman might help me. 1. If I am understanding things so far, the Audio Output Transformer, Power Transformer and the Power Tube selection are the most critical components of a S.E.T. tube amp and will mainly determine the wattage and "character" of the amp? 2. What is the limiting factor or choices that determine if it is a 2 watt amp or a 10 watt amp, the size of the Power Transformer and type of Power Tube selected? I have pretty much settled on a S.E.T. integrated amp of at least 8 watts something along the lines of this 300B Single-Ended (SE) Tube Amplifier Schematic (6SN7 input) and would like to get some input on improving it as this design is from 1993. and last but not least what does " nfb " stand for? Thanks And Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and anything else you might Celebrate at this wonderful time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.