babadono Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 57 minutes ago, mboxler said: I found this interesting... https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/ Yes, very interesting. I've never seen it explained (and measured) in this detail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 29, 2016 Moderators Share Posted November 29, 2016 49 minutes ago, babadono said: Yes, very interesting. I've never seen it explained (and measured) in this detail. I'm going to read that, so I guess bi-wiring does not mean the positive wire likes the other positive wire and so on ? Couldn't help it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson's Ridge Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Old topic. Bi-wiring provides no improvement in sound quality provided speaker wire is large enough and properly constructed. http://www.achievum.eu/bi-wiring.html http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/bi-wiring-from-amplifier-to-loudspeaker/bi-wiring-examples-of-results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLAudio Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 On 11/29/2016 at 4:45 PM, babadono said: Yes, very interesting. I've never seen it explained (and measured) in this detail. Keep in mind that this is a speaker company's website. Also just because something is measurable doesn't mean that it provides a sonic benefit or detriment. ie. THD of .001 vs .1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 36 minutes ago, ATLAudio said: Keep in mind that this is a speaker company's website. Yes and my RF7-IIs and RC64-II are bi wire capable. I just have never tried it. Also just because something is measurable doesn't mean that it provides a sonic benefit or detriment. ie. THD of .001 vs .1 Gotcha. But I think IMD is easier to hear than THD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLAudio Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, babadono said: I feel like from a pure marketing "Keeping up with the Joneses" way everyone offers bi-amping terminals. Most manufacturers don't try and extol on it's "supposed virtues." That said I didn't realise that the RC-64 II had bi-wire terminals. How ridiculous... Still a great center channel... but wow... There's no end to the things which are measurable which don't have a sonic effect that's noticeable, and many the snake oil salesman use that in this industry. I was trying to give an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 If it makes you feel better or like the way it looks by all means go with bi-wiring, i see people use automotive jumper cables for speaker wire all the time and always say whatever floats your boat man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLAudio Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 minute ago, jason str said: If it makes you feel better or like the way it looks by all means go with bi-wiring, i see people use automotive jumper cables for speaker wire all the time and always say whatever floats your boat man. Absolutely. I love the look of Audio Quest stuff, but it's pure voodoo, and way to expensive for just how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2016 2 hours ago, ATLAudio said: I feel like from a pure marketing "Keeping up with the Joneses" way everyone offers bi-amping terminals. I would think that's true, plus to cover people who shop by spec's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 11 hours ago, ATLAudio said: I feel like from a pure marketing "Keeping up with the Joneses" way everyone offers bi-amping terminals. Most manufacturers don't try and extol on it's "supposed virtues." That said I didn't realise that the RC-64 II had bi-wire terminals. How ridiculous... Still a great center channel... but wow... On the old forum there were some blogs by Klipsch employees. One of the engineers said there was no audible benefit to bi-wiring but they made some speakers bi-wireable because it didn't cost much to do it and some customers wanted it. I think it was Reference series he was writing about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Don Richard said: no audible benefit to bi-wiring but they made some speakers bi-wireable because it didn't cost much to do it and some customers wanted it. IMO, the same explanation applies to the switch by Klipsch from zip-cord to Monster Cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Some of the research I've read on this thread has opened my mind back up to allow that bi-wiring a speaker yields measurable improvement. I can believe it. In my own little world where I have bi-amped my speakers, I hear subtle differences vis-a-vis single wire connections. So to put it into perspective I can electronically change a listening mode in my AVR such as Neo6 to Dolby II and hear more difference. Whatever you do, your ears get used to it unless it is grossly out of kilter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Differences either measurable and or audible (not always the same) are just that, differences. I know that when I first started out trying new things and through many "upgrades" I found great satisfaction in identifying "differences." Many of these differences either just seemed to disappear as I got used to them and some actually started sounding bad after awhile in the form of listening fatigue. Other changes that really seemed to be improvements that stood the test of time often times were just not worth it to me in terms of cost to benefit ratio. If money were no object then sure, why not but trying to keep costs down without sacrificing too much in terms of quality is a reality I have to live with. Keep in mind as I'm continually reminded by my friend Bill Flannery that what "sounds good" is purely subjective and a personal experience. So I guess it would boil down to three things for me; is there a noticeable, audible change? Is the change for the better? Is the cost associated with the change worth it? As with most things in this hobby results will probably vary widely with some finding benefits and others not so much. I think another reasonable question on this subject would be, assuming there is a benefit to bi-wiring, where would it place on the list of priorities for system tweaks and improvements? Is there such a list that for the most part is agreed upon in terms of steps one should take to improve a persons system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 3 hours ago, wvu80 said: In my own little world where I have bi-amped my speakers @wvu80 Do you bi amp? Or bi wire? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2016 I agree with that, something may sound better/different but a month of listening may be less attractive. Like the different wire discussions, it's not that I don't believe it can make a difference but more of, there are so many other things that change the sound in big ways, wires to me are way down the list. The room and speaker placement can make a huge difference, this is not even counting the giant difference in recordings or electronics. So to me that difference in wire sound is surely not a place to start when so many other things can affect the sound and be changed in a much larger way. If your room and everything else is as close to optimal as could be then try bi-wiring, but very few people ever get even close to the time and effort it takes. And what is optimal, even that is up for discussion everyday. Do what you can do and be happy and enjoy music, you will not live long enough to make it perfect for everyone's ears, or something everyone can even agree on. Of course it's just another opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Just now, babadono said: @wvu80 Do you bi amp? Or bi wire? Just curious. I have an Onkyo TX NR717. It has a specific feature via the on-screen display menu where I can set my speakers to bi-amp, so I used two discrete sets of cables (4 cables total) OUT from the AVR for bi-amp. I have never understood what the 717 is doing, or how it is separating the signal or output power. I've had lots of people guess, and there is nothing official from Onk. I have never bi-wired. Because I have the Khorns connected to the Onk there is no bi-wire or bi-amp right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, babadono said: @wvu80 Do you bi amp? Or bi wire? Just curious. I know that was not directed at me but just wanted to say I bi-amp and bi-wire but it's designed to do both being an active crossover, I would never bother to bi-wire a normal speaker with a crossover in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, dtel said: it's not that I don't believe it can make a difference but more of, there are so many other things that change the sound in big ways, wires to me are way down the list. The room and speaker placement can make a huge difference, this is not even counting the giant difference in recordings or electronics. So to me that difference in wire sound is surely not a place to start when so many other things can affect the sound and be changed in a much larger way. That's what I was trying to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I prefer my speaker cables bi-wired, I have found there to be an ever so slight bit more clarity of detail and my front and center speakers are all bi-wired using my self made cables with Mogami 2921 quad core wire. I once tried passive bi-amping my fronts using 4 of my Emotiva XPA-5's channels but I never noticed any difference at all doing this. My last 3 sets of main speaker cables have been bi-wired and I do like the results, when I replaced the second set I first went with single wire but I felt something was missing when listening to music and I ended up adding another pair to bi-wire that set as well. My current set of speaker cables using the Mogami 2921 wire really impressed me from the first time I installed them, they really seemed to be a very nice improvement in fine detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 There are so many major things going on in a room, that a change in wire or bi-wiring is far down the list. A bass problem can result in a 20-30 db difference in the FR, phase issues, and bass decay problem can all make a big difference is the sound, depth, accuracy, presence and clarity that can't be fixed with bi-wiring or bi-amping. Measurements are needed to determines some of these major things. A mic and measurement system is worth investing in before buying expensive wire or a second amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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