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Tizman

Quartet and Tangent 500 vocals problem

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Hi all!  This is my first thread here.  It's been great being able to have access to all the information and expertise contained in the community.  Thanks to all the members who I have learned from.   I am the proud owner of three pairs of Klipsch speakers.  Quartets, earlier Heresy ii and Tangent 500.  The Quartets and Tangent 500s have upgraded crossover capacitors.  The Quartets have Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms.  The Tangent 500s have had their cabs extensively braced and dampened so that they   are very quiet and well damped.  The Heresy ii are stock.  I find that the Heresy ii are my favourite.  This is because the other two pairs both have an odd thickness to vocals, especially female vocals, that makes them sound as though there is an emphasis on the deeper notes of all vocals.  It's a subtle, but noticeable emphasis on the lower midrange that sounds unnatural and is distracting.  Crossover upgrades were done with higher quality caps of the same values, and they had this problem before and after the cap upgrades.  I'm wondering if this is something that anyone else has noticed, and if there is anything that I can change in the crossover or elsewhere that might solve this issue.  I use mostly my own DIY single ended tube amps to power the speakers.  Any advice of recommendations would be appreciated.

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Sounds like you are noticing the crossover to the woofers.  If it bothers you, usually moving them out into the room will help, but if not, you'll likely have to tweak the crossover to tailor the upper woofer cut off, possibly with a different inductor or possibly a zobel might help.  This could also be due to the tube amp as the impedance is all over the map, especially in the crossover regions and many tube amps will react to that variation.

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It may be worth your effort to power them with an SS amp of decent quality, just for comparison's sake.

As  poster above has stated, impedance variation maybe contributing to situation.

Had the 500's and can see how your bracing has helped with cabinet resonance.

Welcome to the active forum!

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Have you listened to a pair of cornwalls? Lately? LOL!

 

Good to hear from you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the quick replies and hi Geoff!  The crossovers in the Heresy ii and the Tangent 500 are the same, and the drivers are the same.  I guess the interaction between drivers and cabinet varies the impedance, which then varies the response?  I will try a SS amp, to see what happens, but I'm probably not going back in that direction at this point, so a tube friendly solution would be preferable.  At any rate, the inductors for the woofers are 2.5mH.  What would be a value that might fix the problem?  I can probably  look it up and sort it out myself, but crossover modding is relatively new to me, so if anyone has a suggestion I would appreciate it.  I have a couple of unused 6mH inductors here, as well as some magnet wire, so I can unwrap or add some wire to either the 2.5 or the 6mH to get it where it will sound better.  Thanks again for the responses, and for any advice you may have.  

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Hi.  Also, would anyone happen to know the crossover frequencies for the Heresy ii crossover?  I have been searching, and the schematics are available but not the actual crossover frequencies. 

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SPECIFICATIONS

  • BUILT FROM: 1985
  • BUILT UNTIL: 2005
  • CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: HF: 6000Hz
    LF: 700Hz
  • DIMENSIONS: 21.375" (54.29cm) x 15.5" (39.37cm) x 13.25" (33.66cm)
  • ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: MDF
  • ENCLOSURE TYPE: Sealed
  • FINISHES: Walnut lacquer, Mahogany Lacquer, Medium Oak lacquer, Unfinished Oak, Black Lacquer
  • FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 63Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB
  • MAX ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 114dB SPL
  • MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 114dB SPL
  • MID FREQUENCY HORN: Exponential Horn
  • MIDRANGE: K-53-K 1.75" (3.81cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver
  • NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
  • POWER HANDLING: 100 w max continuous (400 w peak)
  • SENSITIVITY: 97dB @ 1watt/1meter
  • TWEETER: K-76-K 1" (2.54cm) Polyetherimide diaphragm compression driver
  • WEIGHT: 37 lbs. (16.8kg)
  • WOOFER: K-24-K 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone

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Thanks for the spec sheet.  I tried moving the speakers around and found that it is much less

of a problem when the speakers are elevated.  Both the Tangents and the Quartets sound better when they are a foot or more off the ground in my room.  The  vocals sound cleaner and imaging is better.  The Heresy ii were always elevated so that I looked right at the tweeter when listening.  Anyway, now the best sounding set is dependant on the music I'm playing.  I like the modified Tangent 500 better than the Quartet now.  It's very much a Heresy ii with more bass.  Next is the mods on the Heresy ii.  I am going to install Crites titanium diaphragms, switch the small value capacitors in the crossover to Russian K75-10, and replace the electrolytic with a 68uf mkp film cap.  The caps in the Heresy ii appear to be original, so they are 31 years old.  I must say though that every capacitor that I have switched out of a Klipsch speaker has been bang on with respect to specs.  Nothing fancy, but on spec.  Even the electrolytics.  In fact, I had bought a pair of non polar electrolytics to replace the ones in the Tangents, but the ones in there already measured closer to 68uf than the ones I bought, which were both close to 80uf each!  I left them in and bypassed them with a 1uf film cap.  Thanks for all the responses and advice!

Edited by Tizman

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Glad you got it figured out, You have yourself a nice little collection of speakers!

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2 hours ago, Tizman said:

 The Heresy ii were always elevated so that I looked right at the tweeter when listening. 

That would have been good info to start with as to why you liked them better.  Makes a lot of sense (proximity effect) and the reason I suggested moving the speakers.  Makes a lot of sense to compare speakers under like conditions :unsure:.  The loading with the floor is what Klipsch used to give the speakers a bigger sound but muddies things up and gives less than stellar imaging.  

Raise the speakers up and get a sub if you need that extra umph on the bottom end.

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