oldtimer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I agree with you that we are not allowed to discuss certain elements of the story. Likely not as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 turn on the Weber St./James Madison playoff game....good stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, oldtimer said: War is simply the sharp end of the diplomatic stick. The conquest of territory and power is a means of extending political influence and control. There's nothing diplomatic about war.... it is an end result of being stupid, gullible or just plain out gunned and helpless, with nothing to do except to die fighting or succumb to the realization that you must embrace your superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Gilbert said: There's nothing diplomatic about war.... it is an end result of being stupid, gullible or just plain out gunned and helpless, with nothing to do except to die fighting or succumb to the realization that you must embrace your superior. It usually is regarded as a failure of diplomacy. If you do not have the muscle to back it up then your scenario can happen. If there is a clear aggressor then diplomacy is bound to fail between a stronger and weaker party. I get what you are saying. I agree under your scenario but it does not change the inherent political nature of man's actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I didn't offer a scenario, only the basic facts in the rawest sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gilbert said: I didn't offer a scenario, only the basic facts in the rawest sense. Yeah, I get it. It simply becomes definitional when we agree on the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 9, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gilbert said: I didn't offer a scenario, only the basic facts in the rawest sense. Cha ching. Give that man a cigar and a Bookers. Genghis Khan and the Monguls. Edited December 9, 2017 by dwilawyer Genius came out on auto orrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Yeah, I get it. It simply becomes definitional when we agree on the basics. Exactly. WAR, if you/they/we didn't see it coming, it's because you/they/we were either too stupid, too gulible, or too weak (out-gunned). What's left, fight or succumb to the inevitable. Thank God for the leaders with the guts and balls to make the tough calls..... ooooh, I'm a poet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 9, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 9, 2017 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ten-best-history-books-2017-180967416/ I have read 2 on this list and both were excellent, about a 1/4 of a No. 3 which is excellent so far. Anybody else read any of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 44 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: Cha ching. Give that man a cigar and a Bookers. Genesis Khan and the Monguls. Extension of political power through conquest. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Gilbert said: I'm missing you Zen, come join me in the Blue sewer, there's only Keith and not much happening. Yeah, I need to head over there myself. Would be better if ZT came along as well. Miss the old discussions with you perpetually wrong guys... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Gilbert said: There's nothing diplomatic about war.... it is an end result of being stupid, gullible Sounds political to me, in the current sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 War. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I know this has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, but yesterday was the 37th anniversary of John Lennons death. Sure doesn't seem like that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 11 hours ago, T2K said: Sounds political to me, in the current sense. It certainly can be, and considering the world at large, I'm quite certain there are at least a few hundred million people who feel that way every election cycle. Hell, it won't even matter whether their goal/vote was for country, or personal gain. Not even the long term end-result will matter, because it'll be out-of-sight and out-of-mind since their boy or gal didn't win. An inbred, is an inbred, is an inbred. myself included sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, CECAA850 said: War. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. UUUHH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Gilbert said: UUUHH!! Say it. Say it. Say it. Say it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 8:13 PM, dwilawyer said: Why would you need to mention something current in discussing to Crusades or the history of the Suez Canal? I forgot, to try and drag in current foreign policy and politics. Hmm. It seems I really can't add anything to this discussion but feel the Crusades would be a better place to look in considering where the next 'Commemorative Reason for War' date will come from. On 12/8/2017 at 4:32 PM, dwilawyer said: Start a thread about the Suez canal or better yet, the Crusades, and you can talk about the historical relevance of religion as the impetus for war all you want. Seriously? The Crusades would be a good starting point to discuss how 9/11 came about but I feel certain both would be closed under the current TOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 8:24 PM, dwilawyer said: Absolutely. But relatively modern history, and certainly current events, get everyone inextricably intertwined with politics. I agree but as the saying goes, "History repeats itself" and in the Information Age we live in some people choose not to learn from it. I also think the present danger is that propaganda IS being treated as truth and Words no longer matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 9:10 PM, Gilbert said: There's nothing diplomatic about war.... it is an end result of being stupid, gullible or just plain out gunned and helpless, with nothing to do except to die fighting or succumb to the realization that you must embrace your superior. Effective Diplomacy can prevent War from happening....That is why I thought it important to discuss/understand the dynamics of addressing the underlying cause of 9/11...The folks who perpetuated that event knew they were "out gunned and helpless, with nothing to do except to die fighting " but they had no intention of "embracing their superior." Like the Crusades, the people doing the actual fighting and dying are doing it for religious reasons and I understanding that can go a long way into preventing it from happening here again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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