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K-691 / K-510 2-way Cornscala


geoff.

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Klipsch has a pro model KI-396-SMA-II that uses the K-691 3" titanium compression driver mated to the K-510 horn in a 2-way configuration with the K-48-ST woofer. A Chorus III of sorts?

 

 

I am searching for an all Klipsch 2-way Cornscala and was wondering if this might be the combination for a pair of Cornwall cabinets I have that are begging to be filled.

 

I can't seem to find the crossover point used in this model and was curious as to how low the K-691 can go in the K-510 horn. 

 

Any thoughts on this would be well received.

 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, geoff. said:

Klipsch has a pro model KI-396-SMA-II that uses the K-691 3" titanium compression driver mated to the K-510 horn in a 2-way configuration with the K-48-ST woofer.

 

 

A Chorus III of sorts?

 

 

Any thoughts on this would be well received.

 

Thanks

 

Nope...

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1 hour ago, geoff. said:

I can't seem to find the crossover point used in this model...

See http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KI-396-SMA-II-Data-Sheet-v04.pdf

 

Crossover frequency: 1 kHz

 

1 hour ago, geoff. said:

I am searching for an all Klipsch 2-way Cornscala and was wondering if this might be the combination for a pair of Cornwall cabinets I have that are begging to be filled.

 

The K-510 horn is preferred.  It can be crossed as low as 500-600 Hz using steep slope filters (which are also preferred).  However, the compression drivers that Klipsch uses on their Professional series may not be what most home enthusiasts would prefer in terms of sound quality--for instance:

 

If you can buy a couple of K-510 horns, then you have many more options for compression drivers (that Klipsch doesn't offer).  Also, if you've got a pair of Cornwall cabinets, you can buy a pair of Crites cast frame woofers for $300 delivered.  I don't know what the Klipsch price is for K-33 woofers, if you can buy them singly or in pairs.  My guess is that the price will be higher.

 

I'd talk to Bob Crites about your options knowing the requirements that you seem to have and the cabinets that you already have in hand.

 

I'd personally recommend an active digital crossover (2-in, 4-out or even more input-output channels), but Bob can help you out with passive crossovers, too.

 

Chris

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  • 3 weeks later...

Chris, I sincerely thank you for your constructive and thorough advice on this project.

 

I secured a pair of the K-510 horns this week from Gentec International and will be cutting the motorboards on my pair of '84 Cornwall 1's to accomodate them over the holidays.

 

I will be keeping the K-33-E woofers for now, so that only(!) leaves the drivers for the K-510's and the 2-way crossovers left on the drawing board.

 

As far as I can tell there are no dealers north of the border for Faital drivers so I am leaning towards the B&C drivers available from  QComponents, the B&C DE750 or the B&C DE750TN.

 

The incredibly knowledgeable gentleman I dealt with at Gentec International seemed to think he might find a suitable driver from the current Klipsch line-up. I will know in the new year.

 

I just received new crossovers for my '86 Cornwall 2's from Bob Crites this week so I may ask him his thoughts on a passive for the two drivers I am considering. Active crossovers aren't on my radar, yet, but they are increasingly in my thoughts. Kind of like Cornwalls were after I brought home my first pair of Heresy's ten years ago. 

 

 

 

 

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I have decided that Bob's Faital Pro 200 drivers and corresponding crossover are the way to go. Even after exchange on the CDN$, shipping and customs I can't beat the price and performance offered by his product.

 

Managed to jigsaw out the cabinets and get the horns in place. It couldn't have been any simpler, the K510 fits perfectly in the cut-out where the k-57/k-77 used to live.

 

Even the grille cut-out is spot on. 

 

Sometimes you catch a break!

IMG_1226.JPG

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Another shot. 

 

The center mounting hole on the bottom from the previous k-57 marks dead center and the k510 mounts perfectly half an inch under it. The screws got reused too.

 

I noticed some hairline cracks on the first screw so I used washers on subsequent screws. The issue was alleviated.

 

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Over the years I have gone to a place called Gentec International on the outskirts of Toronto for Klipsch replacement parts when I have blown a woofer or a tweeter.

 

A few months ago I got the idea to replace the K-79 in my Cornwall II's (keepers - for now...) with the K-107-Ti (a tractrix titanium unit)! They dropped in with a little filing of the cabinet cut-out and one side of the anti-resonance ribs on the tweeter.

 

After I intalled them I enquired about the availability of the K510 and K-69, knowing full well that failing anything short of a double amputation I WOULD be converting an earlier pair of Cornwall 1's I had into Cornscala's.

 

I was told the K510's were available but not the drivers. They even had two in stock! A twenty minute drive from work saved me shipping and started the wheels turning.

 

Over the holidays I upgraded the crossovers in my CWII's with the Crites units, which had an impact you needed to hear to believe. I did the A/B test with one upgraded speaker, but nothing gelled until both were done.  It is without a doubt something to put on the "to do" list if you have speakers you ALREADY like that are dated.

 

Now here is the clincher... 

 

I emailed Bob (Mr. Crites) thanking him for his help. I told him after much searching NOTHING came close to the performance and value of his Faital Pro HF200 drivers (even after CDN$ exchange, shipping and customs!) and asked about a crossover to go with said drivers in this project. I also asked about the benefits of one crossover frequency over another.

 

This was his response:

 

"I have not tested the HF200 on the K-510 but would expect it to perform very good on that horn. If the K-510 horns were actually available in good quantity, pretty sure I would be using them in my 2-way Cornscala.

 

Anyway, the same crossover I build for the Style D Cornscala should work fine on your speakers. As far as crossover frequency, I think 500 is best. I determined that acoustically measuring the frequency response when I did the Style D. That is so similar to what you are doing that I would be very surprised if 500hz were not the best on yours also. You have to realize how really close to my Style D you are building. I use the Faital HF140 on the Tractrix LT142 horn. The HF200 IS the HF140, just with an adapter to make it a 2 inch instead of 1.4 inch."

 

How is that for encouragement?

 

The crossover used in Mr. Crites' Cornscala D is the CS500. He is currently selling them for US$250.00.

 

This is where I thank ALL of the forum members who have shared their experiences, and in so doing, make it possible for myself and others to take the enjoyment of this fine hobby to previously unknown heights.

 

Gentlemen, my sincere thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow...that's a mouthful.  Thanks for sharing all that.  I hope that Bob isn't offended by sharing of his portion, but I think it may well turn out better that you did. 

 

If you believe that you might want support for EQing everything flat using a calibration microphone and REW freeware (assuming that you have some way to do parametric EQ upstream of each speaker), let me know. The process consists of you first taking a measurement with the microphone a metre in front of the speaker, then emailing the measurement file. You get back the optimized parametric equalization filters to flatten response--which you would plunk into your EQ software or hardware. The process is repeated once more to assure that the EQ prediction was accurate.  If your room placement is symmetric, then you only have to do one speaker: if not, then you repeat taking and emailing measurements for the other speaker.

 

Chris

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Here's a list of parametric EQ freeware VST plugins that will work with foobar2000 or any other application that supports VST plugins:

 

http://www.producerspot.com/best-free-equalizer-eq-vst-au-plugins-on-internet

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On 12/24/2016 at 0:07 AM, geoff. said:

 

 

The incredibly knowledgeable gentleman I dealt with at Gentec International seemed to think he might find a suitable driver from the current Klipsch line-up. I will know in the new year.

 

I just received new crossovers for my '86 Cornwall 2's from Bob Crites this week so I may ask him his thoughts on a passive for the two drivers I am considering. Active crossovers aren't on my radar, yet, but they are increasingly in my thoughts. Kind of like Cornwalls were after I brought home my first pair of Heresy's ten years ago. 

 

 

 

 

geoff,

 

Congrats on your new CS/510 project, I bet you will be very impressed with the results.

 

I have been lucky enough to meet and can agree that Fernando is very helpful and knowledgeable,

my new project would not have been possible without all his help!

 

 

 

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...the Jubilee's? He spoke of such a man 'round these parts...

 

And yes, I have been in customer service ALL my working life, and at 51 years old was left in awe with that gentleman's product AND applied knowledge and congeniality. He should have a tip jar!

 

Which brings me to my dealings with Mr. Crites. Another true gentleman with a wealth of knowledge and genuine character.

 

Life is good.

 

 

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