Loneshark Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I recently got an itch to see what would happen if I sent in my crossovers to Crites for an upgrade on the caps. The speakers in question are a pair of Forte II and they sound good, but I just can't imagine what I'm missing. What changes would I notice? - more bass, clearer highs and mids, or maybe nothing? The crossovers aren't looking suspicious and they are all original but I just can't shake the itch of the unknown enhancements. Hoping someone can weigh in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 You're missing nothing. As long as the driver is working and sound is coming out of it and there's a capacitor in the circuit, it's working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 In my experience, a Klipsch speaker with better imaging. Mind you I was replacing 30 year old XO's for both my Belles and my old Cornwalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Peter P. said: You're missing nothing. As long as the driver is working and sound is coming out of it and there's a capacitor in the circuit, it's working. Well, sort of, but, not exactly. I don't think you are going to experience a dramatic difference with the crossover change, but in my opinion, what you might do is to not only change the crossover, but also update the tweeter diaphragms to the Crites titanium. Those two changes in combination I think would net you a very noticeable positive change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 It depends on how old your current caps are and if they have drifted out of spec. I noticed a pronounced improvement when I replaced the caps in my Heresy HIP even though the old ones looked fine. Its hard to describe but the speaker sounds much more tight and controlled. If your previous caps are fine and you are just trying to 'upgrade' your caps or change the sound then that is a whole other (and often heated) discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneshark Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 The crossovers are all original from the 89-90 years. I read amazing reviews about the Forte bass and I just have never experienced that full-time. On certain tracks it is shown and very much there but not always on tracks that I feel are recorded appropriately. I was wondering if maybe the crossovers had something to do with that. Based on this forum so far, it's sounding like my improvement would be marginal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Changes in sound can vary from mild to quite significant... depending on the condition of the capacitor being replaced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Are you changing them just to change them....or are you not happy with the way everything sounds. I my case. Years ago I bought a set of chorus II's and started listening to Claire Debussy which is a piano music....when it got to the real high notes it really broke up....sounded like s..t. I decided to do something about it....replaced all diaphragms and even bought crossovers from Crites. They never broke up like that again. plus the piece of mind factor. Don't get me wrong I have just changed the caps on some of the other sets of speakers also...but I usually change at least the tweeter diaphragms at the same time. More base /better highs better mids...maybe..... maybe not...Put it this way I just sold a set of 25 year old Quartets to my boss (of all people) change all diaphragms and caps......he was totally blown away by the sound. Piece of mind....Just do it G.E.M. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Loneshark, Capacitors can dry out over time. When they do the resistance imposed, crossover points, and output will be affected. Depending on how bad they are, 25 yrs old could be terrible or not, will be the effects on the sound. If you have continually listened to the speakers over that time, your ears would adjust and you'd never know what you are missing until you do the change. You might not notice the difference in the highs and imaging issues, others will. There are some good posts by ALK and others about caps, ESR, and other things with some graphs other places in the forum. Here are some links which don't get too deep into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 9 hours ago, Loneshark said: The crossovers are all original from the 89-90 years. I read amazing reviews about the Forte bass and I just have never experienced that full-time. On certain tracks it is shown and very much there but not always on tracks that I feel are recorded appropriately. I was wondering if maybe the crossovers had something to do with that. Based on this forum so far, it's sounding like my improvement would be marginal If your problem is bass performance, it's not the Forte's. It's either your speaker placement or the environment they're in. I feel those are the two most important factors affecting speaker sound quality. If you can, place the Forte's closer to the wall or even better, in corners. Next, they'll be constrained by the distance from the speaker to the opposite wall. The longer, the better. If the room has a lot of reflective surfaces, the reflected wave can cancel out the transmitted wave at certain frequencies giving the illusion of lost bass. As an aside, II was amazed at the improvement in bass response of my twinky bookshelf speakers with 6.5" woofers when I placed them on my carpeted floor for an unrelated reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 What will not help the bass (though is likely not a problem) is if the ESR on the old electrolytic cap on the woofer crossover is going way out of spec. If it's resistance has gone up significantly on the cap, it will force more power across it and less across the woofer. Additionally it could cause the amp to work harder. These are possibilities but the highest possibility is poor room/placement interaction for bass performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 9 hours ago, Loneshark said: I read amazing reviews about the Forte bass and I just have never experienced that full-time. On certain tracks it is shown and very much there but not always on tracks that I feel are recorded appropriately. I was wondering if maybe the crossovers had something to do with that. Based on this forum so far, it's sounding like my improvement would be marginal. Perhaps more than one thing going on here. Good capacitors, like Bob Crites uses, really aren't very expensive--i.e., the cost of a ticket to a big-name music act or a couple of trips to the movie theater and getting popcorn+soda. Capacitors are about the least-cost upgrade that you can perform and truly hear the results, especially if the old capacitors are 25-30 years old or older. Lack of bass is usually something other than capacitors in my experience (but it certainly can be the capacitors only). If you want to try different approaches to increase and improve your bass output as-is, post pictures of your current loudspeaker-room setup. I can assure you that there is something that can be done--for free. All that's needed is a little time, and moving some furniture, electronics and loudspeakers around. The only ultimate cost risk is perhaps a little extra loudspeaker wire to reroute from electronics to loudspeakers, and perhaps absorbent material for walls and/or floor. The third area of interest is the music itself. If some music you play sounds correct and other music doesn't, then the likely cause is music mastering equalization. Correcting this is free, too, only requiring a bit of your time to correct forever. In my experience, this is the most effective approach to correcting lack of bass that exists and it takes only a few minutes per album or track to correct. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I agree... LF issues are not usually Capacitor related. New cap's, if effective, usually show themselves in the HF section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 14, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 9:35 PM, Schu said: Changes in sound can vary from mild to quite significant... depending on the condition of the capacitor being replaced. That's what I was thinking, also different models had different capacitors which age differently. Had some OLD AA crossovers for something in the yard, they were even leaking oil they were so bad, same design just new capacitors and the sound difference was huge. They were playing what I thought was fine before that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallywagger77 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 After reading all this I'm starting to think the caps in my almost 40 year old LaScalas might need replacing. Also I'm wondering about my split LS in the center from early 80's (not sure what crossover network but not AA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 If I buy a pair of older speakers I plan on using / keeping for any length of time I have the crossovers rebuilt or replaced. I found the drop in replacements for the Chorus II's were a noticeable improvement while having the stock ones rebuilt not as much. I really think its the higher quality parts and parts separation on the larger board that make for the improved sound more than the replacement of aged capacitors, at least from my limited experience. Obviously if you have an older crossover network like the AA's or any of the board mounted ones from Klipsch new capacitors are all you likely need. The forte or any of the models that use the cheap / tiny PCB mounted crossovers should be replaced with the higher quality ones IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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