John Chi-town Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 BTW, INMHO the results are outstanding. To the naysayers, show me a Heritage product made in the last 10+ years that use phenolic diaphragms? Best regards, John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The Palladium flagship speakers use Titanium tweeters and Aluminum mids and they are some of the smoothest speakers I've ever heard. The KI-396 Pro speaker that everyone raves about uses a 3" Titanium driver in its horn with no complaints of harshness. The Cornwall III, Heresy III and now, the all new forte III use Titanium tweeters and mids so there must be something good about them? It is entirely possible that anyone complaining about harshness due to these metallic drivers may have other issues going on either in their room or equipment matching / source material causing a bad experience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 BTW, INMHO the results are outstanding. To the naysayers, show me a Heritage product made in the last 10+ years that use phenolic diaphragms? Best regards,JohnKhorns and La Scalas. Forte III will be using titanium though, so I'd say that's a pretty good indication of whether they are worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 17 hours ago, John Chi-town said: BTW, INMHO the results are outstanding. To the naysayers, show me a Heritage product made in the last 10+ years that use phenolic diaphragms? Best regards, John Current Klipschorn and La Scala II use Phenolic diaphragms for mids. I for one prefer the factory Phenolic diaphragms, so do others so the swap is not for everybody. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 hours ago, jason str said: Current Klipschorn and La Scala II use Phenolic diaphragms for mids. I for one prefer the factory Phenolic diaphragms, so do others so the swap is not for everybody. Jason; Thank you. I was not aware of that. Guess I never investigated Klipschorn or La Scalla, since I do not have the footprint available for either. Best regards, John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 hours ago, John Chi-town said: Jason; Thank you. I was not aware of that. Guess I never investigated Klipschorn or La Scalla, since I do not have the footprint available for either. Best regards, John I feel your pain, wish i had more space available as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 some people are very sensitive to the structural resonance of ti diaphragms and just cannot stand listening to them, this is not an issue with phenolic or aluminum diaphragms. So they are good for most but not a 100% fit for all. Important to know. Most of the RF speakers are ti diaphragms so if you have heard them and like them you will be good to go with ti tweeter and mid diaphragms in your late heresy H2 Forte Chorus and such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I believe last I heard it was about a 50 / 50 split on the titanium mid upgrade with people either loving them or hating them, not a lot of middle ground. The Titanium tweeters on the other hand seem to have almost a 100% approval rating with only a handful of people that don't like them out of presumably hundreds? thousands? The nice thing about the titanium "upgrades" is that they are relatively cheap, easy to install and are universal in a number of Klipsch models making them easy to sell in the used market if you decide they are not for you making them almost risk free. I say anyone on the fence should just try them and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 " Forte III will be using titanium though, so I'd say that's a pretty good indication of whether they are worth it. " I'm sure Roy designed the network to take into account the (different) response of the Ti vs the phenolic diaphragms. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 " Forte III will be using titanium though, so I'd say that's a pretty good indication of whether they are worth it. "I'm sure Roy designed the network to take into account the (different) response of the Ti vs the phenolic diaphragms.I'm positive he did. I was saying it is a good indication of the titanium being a good choice. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So what is the crossover point from woofer to mid on the Forte III? Seems the Cornwall and H III are higher than older Heritage which may not provide the blend. If the Forte III is able to get the crossover back down around 600hz, it'd be worth a listen though Ti pushed that low may be annoying (to me) though. When you start trying to push woofer to horn transitions up much higher than that, I find way too many discontinuities between the horn sound and DR woofers to have a satisfying lower crossover point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So what is the crossover point from woofer to mid on the Forte III? Seems the Cornwall and H III are higher than older Heritage which may not provide the blend. If the Forte III is able to get the crossover back down around 600hz, it'd be worth a listen though Ti pushed that low may be annoying (to me) though. When you start trying to push woofer to horn transitions up much higher than that, I find way too many discontinuities between the horn sound and DR woofers to have a satisfying lower crossover point.Ever hear the Altec 19? 15" woofer and crossover point of 1200hz. One of the best speakers ever made and no one I've ever had over has ever thought there was discontinuity in the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, pzannucci said: So what is the crossover point from woofer to mid on the Forte III? Seems the Cornwall and H III are higher than older Heritage which may not provide the blend. If the Forte III is able to get the crossover back down around 600hz, it'd be worth a listen though Ti pushed that low may be annoying (to me) though. When you start trying to push woofer to horn transitions up much higher than that, I find way too many discontinuities between the horn sound and DR woofers to have a satisfying lower crossover point. I believe it was stated the new mid horn is a K-701 variant so crossover point should be around 700-800hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 52 minutes ago, Grizzog said: Ever hear the Altec 19? 15" woofer and crossover point of 1200hz. One of the best speakers ever made and no one I've ever had over has ever thought there was discontinuity in the sound. The model 19 was not even Altec lansing's best model let alone one of the best speakers ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, jason str said: The model 19 was not even Altec lansing's best model let alone one of the best speakers ever made. We'll have to disagree on whether the 19 was one of the best...you don't see people asking about "upgraded" drivers on those or horn changes. I would be interested in what you think is their best model. As far as crossover point, I think Roy mentioned that just pointing that because one horn has a lower point means absolutely nothing for sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Grizzog said: We'll have to disagree on whether the 19 was one of the best...you don't see people asking about "upgraded" drivers on those or horn changes. I would be interested in what you think is their best model. As far as crossover point, I think Roy mentioned that just pointing that because one horn has a lower point means absolutely nothing for sound. Well I do hear about people having complaints about them. Additionally it does matter what your sensitivity to the horn / DR woofer difference is. In my opinion, the lower you can push that transition point, the smoother (probably due to wavelength issues) and better dispersion the speaker provides. Ti's pushed that low didn't seem to be as natural in sound. As far as the Altec Model 19's are concerned and the 1200hz crossover on an 800hz horn are just that, impressive what what they are.... I know there are much better sounding speakers available but whatever makes you happy Valencias and alike in my kid days were impressive back then though I was running Frazier 7s which weren't slouches either. Something like 19's with a 511 properly set up with a low crossover makes much more sense to me. I will have to search out hearing Forte IIIs when available though for the $$$, I'm not sure I would bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, Grizzog said: We'll have to disagree on whether the 19 was one of the best...you don't see people asking about "upgraded" drivers on those or horn changes. I would be interested in what you think is their best model. As far as crossover point, I think Roy mentioned that just pointing that because one horn has a lower point means absolutely nothing for sound. We had Valencia A series when i was growing up but one of the neighbors had a pair of 820's i liked better, the 19's were good for the size i guess. Some of the best i have heard would be the A series ( large venue) and would not fit in the average home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 51 minutes ago, Grizzog said: As far as crossover point, I think Roy mentioned that just pointing that because one horn has a lower point means absolutely nothing for sound. There's physics involved, not even discounting time domain discrepancies. I'm glad that these mean absolutely nothing for sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 There's physics involved, not even discounting time domain discrepancies. I'm glad that these mean absolutely nothing for sound.What I am saying, and what I gathered from Roy's post, was pointing to a 700hz vs 600hz horn and automatically saying the 600hz is better is inaccurate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Grizzog said: What I am saying, and what I gathered from Roy's post, was pointing to a 700hz vs 600hz horn and automatically saying the 600hz is better is inaccurate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Of course, I'm not saying automatic. The transition to me is less abrupt the lower you go. It would depend on the implementation (crossover, driver selection, target cost, etc.) That is 100hz (less of an issue with a 12" woofer - implementation) vs the push for Cornwall III using the smaller horn with higher cut off frequency. The Ti may demand a higher cut off vs phenolic. Bottom line, buy it if you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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