Justus Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rich_Guy said: Electrical current has a draw of current, this is why a 100w light bulb uses more than a 60w bulb. The electric current travels very much like a river both being pushed and drawn along its course and a variety of things will control this. I think i see now... So throwing 4 wires on a 9v battery to a flashlight bulb will be brighter than 2 wires right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 No the number of wires would make no difference in brightness, although other factors can control its brightness, just as bi-wiring won't make your system louder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rich_Guy said: No the number of wires would make no difference in brightness, although other factors can control its brightness, just as bi-wiring won't make your system louder. Ok, so it makes it clearer sound then. Path of least resistance is the key, and in speakers i need to learn more i guess. Biamp i understand.... this biwire has me totally lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Justus said: Ok, so it makes it clearer sound then. Path of least resistance is the key, and in speakers i need to learn more i guess. Biamp i understand.... this biwire has me totally lost Link from a different thread:https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/ This is the best explanation I had ever seen so far of bi wiring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, babadono said: Link from a different thread:https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/ This is the best explanation I had ever seen so far of bi wiring. Yes thanks, this is one of the best, I've seen this before but I had lost the link to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I've been using the monoprice closed screw banana plugs for a while now and haven't had a problem. So, another vote for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, Scars said: I've been using the monoprice closed screw banana plugs for a while now and haven't had a problem. So, another vote for them? Sure. I assume you mean the dual set screws, which have been a staple in good banana plugs for years. The other banana plugs mentioned are just newer designs which address the traditional problems of coming loose. It is more important IMO to make sure to avoid the ones which don't work. I mentioned the Monoprice plugs earlier which I recommended avoiding. They have a cool feature in which the tip screws off and can replaced with a pin type which is used with the older spring loaded connectors. The problem is, they get loose real easy and therefore I can't recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/1/2017 at 11:23 AM, Rich_Guy said: I completely agree. However bi-wiring increases the physical size of the wire gauge at the connector, it is not quite the same as using the larger gauge wire. So using 12 gauge wire bi-wired is basically still the same as using 12 gauge wire (not 9 gauge). You are still using a 12 gauge wire just separating the Hi/low frequencies. My fronts and center I use Mogami 2921 cable which is 4 strands of 13 gauge so I'm running 13 gauge bi-wired wire, which I feel is plenty for the 15 ft aprox longest run of my front cables. My surrounds I am running a larger 12 gauge wire which is not bi-wired and the longest run is aprox 35 ft. I am definitely not in the bigger must be better crowd. PWK and I BOTH just flashed our yellow buttons at you!!!!!!!!!!! I will ask you to remember that I took a Junior/Senior Electronics class as a Freshman in Highschool and the next year, the instructor retired, so the metal shop teacher used MY notebook to teach the class! Further, I went to the JVS for commercial wiring and then had a 4.0 for my first two years of an Electrical Engineering degree, so lets hear you back up your statements with LAWS, because they just don't fly here! Roger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 12/18/2016 at 1:00 PM, Rich_Guy said: I use bi-wired 13 gauge on my fronts and center and I use regular single wired 12 gauge for my surrounds. On my fronts and center I am using Mogami 2921 which is an extremely nice studio grade wire. It's ultra flexible and just seems to bring out every detail a little cleaner, but it is not cheap either at $4.98 a foot for bulk wire. Link for Mogami wire An inexpensive budget version could be Monoprice wire around $0.42 a foot for bulk wire (14 gauge) Link for Monoprice wire You can make your cables look nicer by using Techflex sleeving Link for Techflex sleeving Also use of heat shrink tubing and cable pants can make your cables have a more finished and attractive look Link for cable pants It's not hard to make your own speaker cables and you can easily make them look very nice as well if you want. Speaker Wire CANNOT make your highs just that much cleaner! Speaker wire has only one job, and that is to deliver a signal! That signal is either CLEAN, or ENHANCED in some fashion. A lot of Boutique Speaker Wires Color the sound. This is most usually is accomplished by adding Capacitance to the wire. Paul Wilbur Klipsch said it best himself; "There is NO such thing as high fidelity, a thing either has fidelity or it does not!" That is not to say the coloring the sound may not be more pleasing to some than actual fidelity! Two excellent examples of people who prefer a colored sound are Bose speaker lovers, and the whole Tubes VS: Solid State issue. If you are hearing a physical difference in 2 separate speaker wires, the ONLY answer is that at least one of them is colored, and although you may prefer the sound, colored is NOT Fidelity! Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 5:08 AM, Justus said: Biwiring uses the same lugs on the source for 2 pairs of wire....so how is this splitting any kind of signal if the signal is never split from the source? Isnt this basically just reinventing the jumper? The path is exactly the same, full range from the source to the speakers crossover. You are absolutely 100% on track with your thinking and anyone who says diferant is selling snake oil or going with "Well I think" Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 10:44 AM, Rich_Guy said: Since the draw of the electricity is different at the low and high frequency drivers the current travel is slightly different through each wire when they are separated (bi-wired) rather than using a shared wire. Think of this as a single lake that supplies two rivers going to two different locations, if the demand is higher at one location than the other the river flow will be different even though both rivers start from the same source. Bi-wiring takes advantage of these differences and the result can be a very slight difference in the overall clarity, some people feel this is worth it while others don't. Everyone's hearing and listening is also different and many people will not hear or care about the differences and call it just snake oil making this one of those often hot topics among different people. If you want to bi-wire do it, if you don't then don't. Back this up with electrical LAW, this is 100% BS!!!!! Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 11:15 AM, Justus said: But the source where plugged in is feeding both wires..... then they seperate, and terminate at the speaker right? So how is anything any seperate than using the jumper? Maybe im totally unaware on how a speaker works, but.... they draw power like a river? I thought the amp/avr pushed a signal, not the speakers drawing. Turn volume to 20, and the source pushes accordingly right? Xover does the rest? So how does 4 wires per channel when tied into same source provide different power? I get the river idea, but.... i wasnt aware speakers draw. I thought they got pushed. Im sorry, maybe im missing something..... it sounds funny to me. And it absolutely SHOULD sound funny to you! Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Bi-Amp Bi-Wire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 11:24 AM, Rich_Guy said: Electrical current has a draw of current, this is why a 100w light bulb uses more than a 60w bulb. The electric current travels very much like a river both being pushed and drawn along its course and a variety of things will control this, at the source, the destination and the course along the way. Do you even KNOW what Ohms Law is??? Loads do NOT draw Current! Current IS Amperage! A 60 Watt Lightbulb and a 100 Watt light bulb have different "LOADS" Loads are measured in "RESISTANCE!" As in Resistance to the flow of Electrons! WATTAGE is equal to the Amperage times the Voltage. And Voltage is Amperage times Resistance. Therefore, since house voltage which is usually called 120 volts, but more accurately probably 110 volts The resistance is going to be 12.1 Ohms for the 100 Watt bulb, and 60% of that for the 60 watt bulb or 7.26 Ohms. This is using the 110 volt figure of course, and the formula R = the voltage squared and that sum divided by the power. Please, please, please, learn what the heck you are talking about before trying to teach someone else FALSE information! With Bi-Amping, you can either use a pre amp cross over to split frequencies before the amp, or some amps have built in cross over functions. Two pieces of wire ONLY increase the surface area of wire, EXACTLY like larger gauge wire does, and this is important because Electrons travel on the surface of conductive materials such as wires. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance, and this explains why sometimes a tree will be split, but most trees have the majority of scaring on the outside of a tree! Roger 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 11:28 AM, Justus said: I think i see now... So throwing 4 wires on a 9v battery to a flashlight bulb will be brighter than 2 wires right? Absolutely NOT is the two wires have the same amount of surface area as the 4 smaller wires do! Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, twistedcrankcammer said: Do you even KNOW what Ohms Law is??? Loads do NOT draw Current! Current IS Amperage! A 60 Watt Lightbulb and a 100 Watt light bulb have different "LOADS" Loads are measured in "RESISTANCE!" As in Resistance to the flow of Electrons! WATTAGE is equal to the Voltage times the Resistance. Therefore, since house voltage which is usually called 120 volts, but more accurately probably 110 volts The resistance is going to be slightly less than 1 Ohm for the 100 Watt bulb, and 60% of that for the 60 watt bulb. Please, please, please, learn what the heck you are talking about before trying to teach someone else FALSE information! With Bi-Amping, you can either use a pre amp cross over to split frequencies before the amp, or some amps have built in cross over functions. Two pieces of wire ONLY increase the surface area of wire, EXACTLY like larger gauge wire does, and this is important because Electrons travel on the surface of conductive materials such as wires. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance, and this explains why sometimes a tree will be split, but most trees have the majority of scaring on the outside of a tree! Roger Correct, everything else IS snake oil. I find most who like to argue their Bi-Wire stint, have already spent the money and are trying to feel good about it. Had a libation in a pub last week with an old Ham Radio guy, chatting about speakers and loads, this old guy said one thing, Ohms law rules. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 This is a great Drinkin Conversation and im not drinkin this late. Ginger Cookies & Lite Coffee, so im outta here......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 11:51 AM, Justus said: Ok, so it makes it clearer sound then. Path of least resistance is the key, and in speakers i need to learn more i guess. Biamp i understand.... this biwire has me totally lost Bi-Wiring does absolutely nothing but add more surface area and look neat! A wire conducts electricity on it's surface, adding more surface area reduces the resistance load of a wire, and increasing the length of a wire, increases it's resistance. There are charts on what gauge wire you should use, for what length run. I use 10 gauge pure copper wire and half the strands are pure silver plated. Is it expensive = YES! Does it look impressive = YES! Does it sound one bit different = Hell No! When my brother in law built his addition to his house with his very large entertainment room, we wired it all with Knu Concepts 8 Gauge wire. Pretty? = YES! Impressive? = YES! Sound any better? = Hell No! Dude, consult the charts for the length of runs you will be using. If you want to go one size larger for shits and giggles, go ahead, but by all means save your money and upgrade your speaker when you can afford to! Until you get into BIG money, your best bang for the buck in sound will always be in the speakers! Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 0:01 PM, babadono said: Link from a different thread:https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/ This is the best explanation I had ever seen so far of bi wiring. Read this article and it is entirely total BS!!! To separate these frequencies as this idiot suggests? How does it make a difference to the sound if the bi-wire is 10 feet long or 6 feet? Is the shorter run better at separating out these mythical frequencies"? If so, those 2 three inch strips of metal are doing the EXACT SAME THING on the speaker itself! Two sets of terminals are for the option of bi-amping period! I suggest that if you are not willing to take my word for it, that you PM Roy about wires discerning between and splitting frequencies and PLEASE include or attach all of us to the conversation. Plus, I absolutely believe that whoever wrote this article has absolutely NO-IDEA what an Oscilloscope is, please obtain one and show us how one wire carries only high frequencies and the other only carries low frequencies???????????? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 35 minutes ago, twistedcrankcammer said: Bi-Wiring does absolutely nothing but add more surface area and look neat! A wire conducts electricity on it's surface, adding more surface area reduces the resistance load of a wire, and increasing the length of a wire, increases it's resistance. There are charts on what gauge wire you should use, for what length run. I use 10 gauge pure copper wire and half the strands are pure silver plated. Is it expensive = YES! Does it look impressive = YES! Does it sound one bit different = Hell No! When my brother in law built his addition to his house with his very large entertainment room, we wired it all with Knu Concepts 8 Gauge wire. Pretty? = YES! Impressive? = YES! Sound any better? = Hell No! Dude, consult the charts for the length of runs you will be using. If you want to go one size larger for shits and giggles, go ahead, but by all means save your money and upgrade your speaker when you can afford to! Until you get into BIG money, your best bang for the buck in sound will always be in the speakers! Roger Lmao, dont worry i havent bought much of this convo at all... im glad someone here caught most of my sarcasm. Most of the argument i seen was just nanners sounding to me. Im keeping my lowes outdoor lighting 12awg wire and i will not Buywire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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