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RSVRMAN

Jubilee advice needed.

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402s with TADs on Khorn bass horns active Xilica 4080.  FirstWatt SIT2 on the top.  Trying several things on the bottom.  Thinking I should be listening for the best “first watt” given the extreme sensitivity of this combo 

I’m in musical heaven lately since the 402 TAD change.  Haven’t really dialed in yet on any amp differences

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2 hours ago, Delicious2 said:

I’m in musical heaven lately since the 402 TAD change.  Haven’t really dialed in yet on any amp differences

I'm still in mine, too.  It started over 10 years ago...:biggrin2:  I've played with crossover filters and delays, and I believe that has been the biggest single step up since then.  Below are the phase plots on my right-side Jubilee, starting with the typical 4th order Linkwitz-Riley filters in the blue trace, and first order with updated delays in the red trace.  The brown trace is the phase of a Danley SH-50 (EQed flat) in the center location between the Jubs when it was there:

 

278773393_RightJubileePhaseComparison.thumb.jpg.1da74f05dc1426d7b8c70c386b3f37f7.jpg

 

The difference in subjective listening performance far beats any amplifier differences that I've tried.

 

Chris

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9 hours ago, Delicious2 said:

402s with TADs on Khorn bass horns active Xilica 4080.  FirstWatt SIT2 on the top.  Trying several things on the bottom.  Thinking I should be listening for the best “first watt” given the extreme sensitivity of this combo 

I’m in musical heaven lately since the 402 TAD change.  Haven’t really dialed in yet on any amp differences

 

How do you like the SIT amp. I think I’m going to try to build one when Nelson Pass finishes the new batch of sit transistors soon. The reviews say they have a triode tubey sound to them without all the tube headache. I think this would be ideal for 402s 

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Tube headache? 

🤣

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35 minutes ago, AHall said:

 

How do you like the SIT amp. I think I’m going to try to build one when Nelson Pass finishes the new batch of sit transistors soon. The reviews say they have a triode tubey sound to them without all the tube headache. I think this would be ideal for 402s 

Bought it used in person from an excellent guy in CT  who had been using it to drive his Zu speakers and moved on I believe to Coincident Frankenstein.  It is silent on the 402 TAD combo fed by the Xilica much to my delight (I was worried about noise when going active).  I run it about 5 hours/day during the week and 18 on the weekends.  It runs warm but not hot.  No thumping on turn on or turn off.  I like it a lot.

As I stated, I have yet to get a handle on its sound given my "macro" changes of K402, TAD, and especially the Xilica with its powerful ability to dial in Xover, FR, delay and so phase as Chris pointed out.  Any change in amp even an excellent one like this is "micro" in sound differences compared to the other changes.

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On 2/8/2019 at 4:10 PM, Kalifornian said:

Planning on 2 way jubilee later this year.  Currently using La Scala in dedicated treated listening room.  Its 13x11x10....is the jube gonna work??? Too much? 

You  will find that they actually perform spectacular in a small room. I recently moved and now have them in a much larger room with very tall ceilings. In the event you move they scale beautifully as well as I found out. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 7:38 PM, RSVRMAN said:

You  will find that they actually perform spectacular in a small room. I recently moved and now have them in a much larger room with very tall ceilings. In the event you move they scale beautifully as well as I found out. 

Are you still in California? I'd love to hear LRC Jubes..

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On 2/9/2019 at 12:25 AM, Islander said:

Yamaha MX-D1 power amplifiers

I would love to have a couple of those. They do not come up very often, I've heard nothing but good things about them.

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On 2/8/2019 at 6:10 PM, Kalifornian said:

Planning on 2 way jubilee later this year.  Currently using La Scala in dedicated treated listening room.  Its 13x11x10....is the jube gonna work??? Too much? 

 

I've heard of jubilees in smaller rooms.  They supposedly excel in rooms that small but I haven't personally tried it.  If I remember right the OP's room wasn't really much bigger.  

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43 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

I've heard of jubilees in smaller rooms.  They supposedly excel in rooms that small but I haven't personally tried it.  If I remember right the OP's room wasn't really much bigger.  

 

My room isn't huge maybe 15x13x12 still feels like nearfield 8-) I've run Belles, La Scalas, Khorns, Heresy's and Jubs. Every room is a challenge but why compromise the speaker? If it fits it ships.

 

Jubs will be fine in that room just let em rock!!!!

 

 

 

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I think what some folks are asking is, do I really NEED Jubilees for my small room.

 

Not one person who has heard the Jubilee doubts it's capabilities and qualities yet some might ask, do I need all that capability and quality in such a small room, such as a room in a typical residential home. 

 

Near field is cool and all, however do I want to spend thousands of dollars on what amounts to a near field set up... because a Jubilee can EASILY fill a auditorium.

 

I spend most of my listening time around 80db to 85db because of room limitations... the Jubilee will easily crush that listening level with the vast majority of its capabilities left untried.

 

Did I really just buy a Ferrari to drive around in a parking lot.

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19 minutes ago, seti said:

My room isn't huge maybe 15x13x12 still feels like nearfield 8-) I've run Belles, La Scalas, Khorns, Heresy's and Jubs. Every room is a challenge but why compromise the speaker? If it fits it ships.

 

Jubs will be fine in that room just let em rock!!!!

 

Try a pair of b stock black  speckled heresy IIIs and your mind WILL BE blown IMO.   I just bought a pair of heresy III s for outside and...?   They will lot ally make you laugh out loud how good they are.. Even at low volumes with any off the shelf amp @MetropolisLakeOutfitters

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5 hours ago, Schu said:

I think what some folks are asking is, do I really NEED Jubilees for my small room.

5 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Try a pair of b stock black  speckled heresy IIIs

The smaller the room, the more you need the directivity of the K-402s and KPT-KHJ-LF bass bins.  Heresies and other speakers with direct radiating bass bins just can't provide the needed directivity. Having a fair amount of absorption--like the person that asked the question has--is also required, just like that which is used in small monitoring control rooms:

 

IMG_20190208_133024-1843x845.jpg

 

The logic that is tied to how loud some loudspeakers can play (or not play) or their small physical size doesn't come into the equation.  That sort of thinking is actually not applicable, IME.  It's all about full range directivity in small rooms and that's a function of the mouth size of the horns, and reducing the reverberation times of the room to below 0.3 seconds (that is, RT20, RT30 reverberation times).  This may seem counter-intuitive, but I can assure you it is the case. The real problem with small listening room acoustics is early reflections.  Control those early reflections, and you will experience an immersive sound that's truly spectacular.  Jubilees I believe will sound absolutely spectacular in that room.

 

Put the money that many people put on electronics...on the speakers and room treatments instead and the results will be dramatically different. 

 

Chris

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That makes a lot of sense Chris... however, I think my point was not how loud a system can play... it's more about how much capability ones purchased versus how much is practical... in daily use. much of the Jubilees muscle/capability goes unused, whether or not there's  better controlled directivity.

Believe me, I understand and agree with your assessment of controlled directivity in a room where reflections are a concern... however, at what cost.

Is it a merely a matter of economics... perhaps.

If the Klipschorn is 60% of the speaker the Jubilee is, perhaps that's enough.

There does seem to be an element of "bench racing" and braggadocious to the speaker that feeds ego... though you really do an amazing job of breaking thru all the psycho babble.

I've only heard the Jubilee one time, and I wasn't completely blown away... until the db's began to rise, and that's where the speaker began to differentiate itself from other amazing sounding "lessor " systems I have experienced... which brings me back to, do I really need all that capability.

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You're welcome at my place if you're through D/FW International any time.

 

2 hours ago, Schu said:

...it's more about how much capability ones purchased versus how much is practical... in daily use. much of the Jubilees muscle/capability goes unused, whether or not there's  better controlled directivity...Believe me, I understand and agree with your assessment of controlled directivity in a room where reflections are a concern... however, at what cost...Is it a merely a matter of economics... perhaps...If the Klipschorn is 60% of the speaker the Jubilee is, perhaps that's enough.

Yes, that's precisely what I was referring to: "realizable high fidelity".  One is suddenly opening up to living in a glass house when making those sort of arguments, I think. They don't really make a lot of sense when you also look at high-priced DACs & turntables, very high priced passive active preamps, tube electronics, and other "audiophile-quality gear".  That's the point that I was talking about. Jubs are probably the best decision that you can make for a very small listening room (of which the person that asked the question actually has more than a sufficient-sized one for Jubs in my estimation). 

 

[When you feel your knees banging on the Jub bass bins while being seated in your prime listening position, then I think it's time to consider headphones instead--but that's just my opinion on that subject :biggrin2: ]

 

2 hours ago, Schu said:

I've only heard the Jubilee one time, and I wasn't completely blown away... until the db's began to rise, and that's where the speaker began to differentiate itself from other amazing sounding "lessor " systems I have experienced... which brings me back to, do I really need all that capability.

The effect that you mention--that they sounded better as they were turned up--is usually due to the ratio of reflected to direct energy flipping over as the SPL goes up. That's very easily controlled using room treatments, but pretty limiting in terms of what you can say about the performance of the loudspeaker if it's not yet accomplished. That's why I commented. That's not a particularly good way to judge loudspeakers (of any sort) and certainly not at the performance level as Jubs, IME. IIRC, the pair that you heard were very newly installed--as mentioned in advance of your visit on this forum that I remember reading--and perhaps without room treatments/sufficient floor coverings and/or dial-in time (i.e., the owner mentioned more than once that he's pretty busy and presently that time is in short supply to tinker with them).  I know about that situation as I had to learn about it myself over the years. 

 

That owner is also a member of this forum (...you remember, the guy who was kind enough to honor a request to hear them out of the blue).  I recently saw the same thing occur on that exact situation happen over on the diyAudio forum recently (...and the owner's response detailed here.) The guy that did it (user:Joshcpct) is now "famous"...

 

Chris

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Those are very compelling points Chris. I must say you have a way of making a lot of sense and changing ones perspectives without belittling and condescending.  Thank you.

New Klipschorns and Jubilees are roughly the same cost... which is the next step I am sure.

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18 hours ago, Schu said:

I think what some folks are asking is, do I really NEED Jubilees for my small room.

 

Not one person who has heard the Jubilee doubts it's capabilities and qualities yet some might ask, do I need all that capability and quality in such a small room, such as a room in a typical residential home. 

 

Near field is cool and all, however do I want to spend thousands of dollars on what amounts to a near field set up... because a Jubilee can EASILY fill a auditorium.

 

I spend most of my listening time around 80db to 85db because of room limitations... the Jubilee will easily crush that listening level with the vast majority of its capabilities left untried.

 

Did I really just buy a Ferrari to drive around in a parking lot.

 

Yes but what a ride around the parking lot it is...

 

Of all the speakers I've had the jubs are just the best I've heard in my room. The detail is unreal. I wouldn't go back to anything smaller... Just doesn't make sense. My room is small so it is amazing what a 2a3 or 45 can do.

 

 

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 10:33 AM, Chris A said:

I'm still in mine, too.  It started over 10 years ago...:biggrin2:  I've played with crossover filters and delays, and I believe that has been the biggest single step up since then.  Below are the phase plots on my right-side Jubilee, starting with the typical 4th order Linkwitz-Riley filters in the blue trace, and first order with updated delays in the red trace.  The brown trace is the phase of a Danley SH-50 (EQed flat) in the center location between the Jubs when it was there:

 

278773393_RightJubileePhaseComparison.thumb.jpg.1da74f05dc1426d7b8c70c386b3f37f7.jpg

 

The difference in subjective listening performance far beats any amplifier differences that I've tried.

 

Chris

Chris is the RED PHASE line the Bessel 3rd order crossover setting ? 

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