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Jubilee advice needed.


RSVRMAN

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8 hours ago, Chris A said:

If you're willing to get a calibration microphone and install REW on your computer, and you're using a digital crossover, this isn't an issue.  It takes perhaps an hour or so after the initial measurement is emailed to get back corrections, then perhaps one more round of measurement and emailing, then the response can be flattened to within ± 2 dB over its entire passband--if your crossover has sufficient PEQ filters available per channel. 

 

This is more a function of the quality and capability of the crossover that you select.  The mechanics of finding the right PEQ settings are pretty trivial using REW, IME.

 

Chris

Certainly will do that. I had one with my past receiver and it just performed everything on its own. Obviously with crossover it would require the more manual method. Thank you.

7 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

Yes Roy has provided settings for the B&C DE75 on the K402.

 

miketn 

Good to know, TY!

3 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

Are you waiting for her to change her mind? Go big now, or forever wish you did.

Oh she won't change her mind. Just in control of the checkbook. I have my budget, which she is contributing to. I'd prefer to be able to power the Jubes with something other than a Pyle receiver.   If I can swing it, I will be doing my best to make it happen. Taxes on them is what is hurting at the moment. 

8 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Just another comment to try and be helpful.  A few of us bought used TAD 4002 drivers from a seller on Ebay earlier this year for around $500 - $600 each.  He had many sets and you may just find an opportunity like this.  I don't know I haven't looked lately.

I've looked a few times this past week, but unfortunately there's only one pair of the diaphragms for around 2k. I'm on the fence since if I knowingly could get them for nearing that price, I would probably opt for the K69A and later replace. However, if they are still as hard to find as they have been and at the very high price I'm leaning the B&C. Do you by any chance have the ebayer still? Thought to reach out, never know. 

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30 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said:

Certainly will do that. I had one with my past receiver and it just performed everything on its own. Obviously with crossover it would require the more manual method. Thank you.

Good to know, TY!

Oh she won't change her mind. Just in control of the checkbook. I have my budget, which she is contributing to. I'd prefer to be able to power the Jubes with something other than a Pyle receiver.   If I can swing it, I will be doing my best to make it happen. Taxes on them is what is hurting at the moment. 

I've looked a few times this past week, but unfortunately there's only one pair of the diaphragms for around 2k. I'm on the fence since if I knowingly could get them for nearing that price, I would probably opt for the K69A and later replace. However, if they are still as hard to find as they have been and at the very high price I'm leaning the B&C. Do you by any chance have the ebayer still? Thought to reach out, never know. 

 

Sent you a PM on the eBay seller.

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9 hours ago, Chris A said:

Those B&C driver settings on a K-402 probably need to be linked for future reference.   I couldn't find them.

 

Chris

Nevermind - I found it.

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On 12/20/2016 at 6:46 PM, Coytee said:

Here's another thought if you want to break it up into smaller bites.

 

Find a used pair of LaScalas.  Full speaker or 2-piece.

 

Get the 402 for the top of them and make a JubeScala.

 

Use the savings to buy a horn subwoofer that will mate well with the LaScalas.

 

You might be able to put that together for less expense than the Jubilee cost and it will still kick some serious hiney.

 

 

1.jpg

2jubscala.jpg

Great for a center with limited room, which is what Roy designed that for, it won't come close to a Jube the way Roy. designed it.

 

You can put that 402 horn on top of pretty much anything,  and it's going to kick ***, but compared to what?

 

If the price makes sense you want to go 2 way, K-69, the current EV (or alternative that Chris has had good success with) and go from there.  You can try Bob's passives, his Fatials, TADS, B&C'so, etc.  Then you can start messing with Amps, SS for LF, tubeso for HF.

 

Pretty much everybody here that is giving you advice started with 2way, K-69, EV DX-38.  One year Roy found the TADs and for a limited time had a source for those that is long gone but people have continued to find then.

 

Then they all worked through a progression of what worked for them and what they preferred.  I think we are going into ten years now of tweaking this stuff.

 

Every person who has chimed in here, and I was present when most of them heard Jube for first time, jaws dropped when they heard them for first time, with an ancient pro audio SS amp and a $39 CD player, they tend to forget what a high level they were at when they started.  They all pretty much bought a pair (that didn't already own them) if that tells you anything.

 

Get a pair, listen for a month, you will be blown away.  Then let your budget/taste dictate whether you want to try and get another 3 or 4 percent out of them because that is what you are talking about here.

 

In terms of value, I think everyone here will agree, to a person, that you can't approach the sound of stock Jubes for under 25K, maybe 30K now.

 

 

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That was a good summary of the history of the two-way home hi-fi version of the Jubilee from the eyes of the consumers.  

 

There are a couple of options from Klipsch for the home two-way version of the Jubilee: one for the compression driver (K-69-A or B&C DE75), and one for the bass bin center panel (basic black or unfinished spruce veneer).  That's basically it from Klipsch.  Klipsch also provides three lists of active digital crossover settings for the three compression drivers (K-69-A, B&C DE75, and TAD TD-4002), which are usable on any brand name active digital crossover, and two passive crossover circuit diagrams: one for the K-69-A and one for the TAD TD-4002 compression driver.

 

As far as active digital crossover (a.k.a., "loudspeaker processor") brands are concerned, there are many that are available--more than 6 different types have been used--but most owners have used Electrovoice (Dx38, DC-One), Yamaha (SP-2060), Ashly (Protea 3.6SP, 4.8SP), and Xilica (XP 2040, 3060, 4080, and 8080).  I don't recommend Behringer or the lowest-cost dbx processors (i.e., the cheapest PA system crossovers available). No one that I know has successfully used miniDSP crossovers for Jubilees because of electrical noise issues. YMMV.

 

I personally own and have used the EV Dx38, Yamaha SP-2060, and Xilica XP-8080 crossovers. I can tell you that the sound quality was the highest from the 24 bit/96 kHz sampling rate crossovers.  The Yamaha and Xilica processors that I own are 24/96 crossovers.  The other 24/48 processors sound almost as good in terms of sound quality, with the difference being in that last 5% or less of sound quality performance which is audible as "micro-detail". 

 

Passive crossovers are available as a completely third-party source from B&K Sound (Crites) for at least the Jubilee two-way with Faital Pro HF200 and HF206 drivers, and likely more 2" compression driver brands/models.   Bob has in the past custom designed passive crossovers for more than the two compression drivers mentioned just above. Other sources are available for custom crossovers, apparently available from ALK Engineering, etc.  There are more sources for home-built passive crossover circuits--which are likely variants of Roy's above-mentioned crossover designs. 

 

Roy Delgado (Klipsch Professional product line chief engineer) has designed a Jubilee passive crossover for K-69-A and TAD TD-4002 compression drivers, complete with balancing and equalizing passive circuit filters to flatten their response.  At last count, the cost of building the TAD crossovers was in the $3K-$4K/pair range using high quality components--the cost quoted consisting of just the crossover raw material costs, not the labor to fabricate and assemble them.  They are also quite large physically--approaching the size of 1 square metre (yard).

 

Chris

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30 minutes ago, Chris A said:

That was a good summary of the history of the two-way home hi-fi version of the Jubilee from the eyes of the consumers.  

 

There are a couple of options from Klipsch for the home two-way version of the Jubilee: one for the compression driver (K-69-A or B&C DE75), and one for the bass bin center panel (basic black or unfinished spruce veneer).  That's basically it from Klipsch.  Klipsch also provides three lists of active digital crossover settings for the three compression drivers (K-69-A, B&C DE75, and TAD TD-4002), which are usable on any brand name active digital crossover, and two passive crossover circuit diagrams: one for the K-69-A and one for the TAD TD-4002 compression driver.

 

As far as active digital crossover (a.k.a., "loudspeaker processor") brands are concerned, there are many that are available--more than 6 different types have been used--but most owners have used Electrovoice (Dx38, DC-One), Yamaha (SP-2060), Ashly (Protea 3.6SP, 4.8SP), and Xilica (XP 2040, 3060, 4080, and 8080).  I don't recommend Behringer or the lowest-cost dbx processors (i.e., the cheapest PA system crossovers available). No one that I know has successfully used miniDSP crossovers for Jubilees because of electrical noise issues. YMMV.

 

I personally own and have used the EV Dx38, Yamaha SP-2060, and Xilica XP-8080 crossovers. I can tell you that the sound quality was the highest from the 24 bit/96 kHz sampling rate crossovers.  The Yamaha and Xilica processors that I own are 24/96 crossovers.  The other 24/48 processors sound almost as good in terms of sound quality, with the difference being in that last 5% or less of sound quality performance which is audible as "micro-detail". 

 

Passive crossovers are available as a completely third-party source from B&K Sound (Crites) for at least the Jubilee two-way with Faital Pro HF200 and HF206 drivers, and likely more 2" compression driver brands/models.   Bob has in the past custom designed passive crossovers for more than the two compression drivers mentioned just above. Other sources are available for custom crossovers, apparently available from ALK Engineering, etc.  There are more sources for home-built passive crossover circuits--which are likely variants of Roy's above-mentioned crossover designs. 

 

Roy Delgado (Klipsch Professional product line chief engineer) has designed a Jubilee passive crossover for K-69-A and TAD TD-4002 compression drivers, complete with balancing and equalizing passive circuit filters to flatten their response.  At last count, the cost of building the TAD crossovers was in the $3K-$4K/pair range using high quality components--the cost quoted consisting of just the crossover raw material costs, not the labor to fabricate and assemble them.  They are also quite large physically--approaching the size of 1 square metre (yard).

 

Chris

Now this is the post that needs to be heard.  Shows what is available per Roy Delgado's offered setups and what people have done with it.  I would include that there is NO passive available from Klipsch.  There are active speaker processor recommended settings from ROY in more than one two-way setups and there are passives available from 3rd parties based on Roy's design of passive schematic.

 

Using drivers other than K-69-A, B&C DE75, and TAD TD-4002 in a 2 way setup is not something Roy has shared "settings" with us.  He did demo the BMS coaxial driver in 2 way in our presence....but unfortunately, I've never seen those "active settings" published.  I actually liked what I heard.

 

There is no Roy passive schematic or loudspeaker processor settings for ANY 3-way setup.

 

MikeTN. ?  Can this post be put in as a sticky?  If something like this is already there....I apologize.  When this question comes up.......we should automatically first redirect a newcomer to a post like the above.  Then support the member with f/u questions.

 

jc

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I've found that the buying options that are available for the Jubilee are just like those for the behind-the-screen cinema version of the Jubilee (3-way) and interestingly, this seems to confuse typical home consumers.  It shouldn't. 

 

You can think of the separate crossover approach just like buying amplifiers: most audiophiles don't buy self-powered loudspeakers but rather choose their own amplifiers, preamps, and digital/analog source components separately.  It's no different here.  When you get to the performance levels represented by the Klipsch Jubilee, I find that most "audiophile consumers" that have been trading up over the years have fairly specific ideas for what they want and intend to use in their setups.  These people are typically much less interested in "turnkey" solutions. 

 

For higher performance home theater folks and others fairly new to the subject area of buying of high performance audio, having a cheat sheet of options--like the one that's being created here--is useful for making buying decisions.  Turnkey solutions are less common.

  • There is more than one choice for compression drivers for the Jubilee, especially when considering third-party sources for better performance.  Better drivers sound different. 
  • There is more than one choice of (third party) crossovers, passive or active.  Better crossovers sound a little different.
  • There is even a choice for bass bins and mid-bass modules for those willing to go even larger (as both Travis and Mark have alluded to, among others).  Bigger bass and mid-bass bins sound different--in either direct radiating or horn-loaded configurations.

This really shouldn't upset anyone--but it does require a little information and perhaps a little time listening to the differences, which is something that is difficult for those not nearby to a cinema having all types of loudspeaker configurations on site (and a cinema owner or company representative willing to assist in general public auditioning), or Klipsch's cinema products manufacturing facility in Hope, Arkansas to provide that opportunity to listen.

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, Chris A said:

That was a good summary of the history of the two-way home hi-fi version of the Jubilee from the eyes of the consumers.  

 

14 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Every person who has chimed in here, and I was present when most of them heard Jube for first time, jaws dropped when they heard them for first time, with an ancient pro audio SS amp and a $39 CD player, they tend to forget what a high level they were at when they started.  

 

14 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Get a pair, listen for a month, you will be blown away.

Your right Chris A, Travis did a good job giving the idea of how it started and some of it made me laugh, it was true, everyone kind of looked at Roy funny when he presented everything with a $39 walmart cd player and old amp, he was definitely focused on what was on the other end of the speaker wires.

 

I am really glad JC wanted to hear those old horns from the 70's with the 402 on top, I haven't been the same since.

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1 hour ago, dtel said:

Your right Chris A, Travis did a good job giving the idea of how it started and some of it made me laugh, it was true, everyone kind of looked at Roy funny when he presented everything with a $39 walmart cd player and old amp, he was definitely focused on what was on the other end of the speaker wires.

 

I think that everyone on the forum should read this because it's extremely important.  Relative to the potential increase in fidelity you can get with electronics, potential loudspeaker improvement to your overall fidelity and sense of "you are there" realism is at least 10x greater than electronics (i.e., amplifiers, preamps, sources)...in my experience.  The quality of the music you play comes second in terms of potential increase in fidelity.  You cannot hear how good a loudspeaker is while it's playing badly done music--I'm sorry to say. 

 

But if you put a really well-done recording on a pair of Jubilees (whatever electronics are driving it), the music will stop you in your tracks and force you to listen.

 

To some degree, differences in compression drivers are somewhat like that...except not as much of a "knock you down hi-fi improvement" like the Jubilee presents itself to listeners.  Really good compression drivers will grab your attention--but more subtly.  "Smooth", "clean", "transparent", and "clear as a bell" are the catch words that I'd typically use (hi-fi magazine article writers would likely use a couple of hundred words to describe the same thing...:emotion-41:)

 

Chris

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I hope folks don't come away from this thread with the idea that a "stock Jubilee" is a disappointment, or that unless you tweak and tinker the Jubilee will not sound good. 

 

Things could not be further from the truth. A stock Jubilee will sound great and give the listener tons of enjoyment. If you want to swap drivers etc., that is fine and of course it can improve the sound. Just remember the "baseline" set up is still pretty darn good, better than what the vast majority of folks can ever hope for. 

 

IOW, don't hesitate buying the Jubilees just because you are puzzled about which modifications are somehow "required".

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1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

I hope folks don't come away from this thread with the idea that a "stock Jubilee" is a disappointment, or that unless you tweak and tinker the Jubilee will not sound good. 

 

Things could not be further from the truth.

That's very true, good point, I do not have Jubs, but mwm/K69 instead which is close, and they are stock using the stock Dx program Roy set and I love them. Like many have said and I agree you couldn't do better for 25-30K, the best sound I have ever had. Also if you go active about as easy to set up as any speaker.

 

I/we are music listeners, not tinkerers, it's playing at least 8 hours a day.  

 

For anyone interested, get the speakers, go active, once all connected your 95%+ done, and you will be very impressed, it's that simple..............like Coytee says, If I can do it anyone can.  

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"There are a couple of options from Klipsch for the home two-way version of the Jubilee: one for the compression driver (K-69-A or B&C DE75), and one for the bass bin center panel (basic black or unfinished spruce veneer).  That's basically it from Klipsch."

 

I thought you could get the front panel with a nicer veneer on it as an option.

 

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3 hours ago, Marvel said:

I thought you could get the front panel with a nicer veneer on it as an option.

 

The unfinished spruce veneer center panel is the nicer option.  Remember Cornman's Jubs?

 

jub.JPG

 

2eqgv4l.jpg

 

In my room, I cover that center panel with Auralex Sonofiber material in order to reduce early reflections from the K-402 just above each bass bin, and diffractions from the center panel between the two bass bin horn mouths.  So veneer there wouldn't be useful in my case.

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They are available with at least finished Walnut front.  (something like a $100/$200 upgrade per box)

 

I understand they also have Cherry available or did at one time.

 

I also heard they were thinking of another finish but I didn't hear much more about that.  I want to say Rosewood but it's been so long ago, I don't know if that is fond memory or true memory.  Regardless, I never heard that it actually happened.

 

These are all factory finishes...indeed, some are pictures at the factory during process.

cherryjub.jpg

dan+jub+009.jpg

dan+jub+016.jpg

DSC00493.jpg

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