Herc Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Hey guys, Im finishing off my khorn clones but would like to make some wood K400 copies! Can someone take some measurements for me and possible a pic or 2 of the horn? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 A wood K 400... Sounds Sweet.... I have a K400 not enclosed at this time. Not sure how to take measurements of the horn. Isn't it more of a math formula? JM ------------------ HT / Listening Environment: Mains: '83 Khorns All Heritage Center: K77, K400 above screen, Dual K22 in Heresy cabinets under screen. Sides: Forte 1 Subs: Dual SVS Ultra + Screen: 65"x120" DaLite Grey Projector: Sharp PG-M20X Processor: Lexicon MC-1 2 Ch Preamp: McIntosh C-36 Many NAD mono amps (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Throat dia=0.675" Mouth is 16.75 x 5.75 Lenght is 20.75 Cutoff frequency is about 300 Hz. If I were going to build a wooden horn I think I would go with the K-5, rather than the K-400. (http://216.37.9.58/ubb/uploads/k2dx/khn-1wisc.jpg). See also Naked Klipschorns thread. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted September 14, 2002 Author Share Posted September 14, 2002 Thanks for the input guys. jnorv- the reason I selected the k400 is that even though I made the HF section taller then original(11") I would still like to keep the look "stock". I have only 2" of setback from the grill to the baffle. I sent an email to William to see what info he may have. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 Have you seen this site? http://www.woodhorn.com/home.html Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted September 15, 2002 Author Share Posted September 15, 2002 jnorv-yes I have seen that site and others.He does nice work. But Im looking for something that can take me down to 400hz. I found the horncalc program and that seems interesting. Looks very easy to use for fabrication. But demo does not do square or rectangular horns, only full version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 Herc Got your email. I'll try to get you the pics in the comming days. What wood are you going to use? You should stain them and leave off the grill cloth to show off the wood. Maybe do an alternating grain or something. Have you talked to HDBR? He may have some pointers for your project. Also Big D on this BBS has just built Khorns and very helpfull? JM ------------------ HT / Listening Environment: Mains: '83 Khorns All Heritage Center: K77, K400 above screen, Dual K22 in Heresy cabinets under screen. Sides: Forte 1 Subs: Dual SVS Ultra + Screen: 65"x120" DaLite Grey Projector: Sharp PG-M20X Processor: Lexicon MC-1 2 Ch Preamp: McIntosh C-36 Many NAD mono amps (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyRyan Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I've been talking with Woodhorn.com about them making a k400 wooden horn. Bill Martinelli of woodhorn.com is intrigued. I'm going to give him the dimensions that JNorv lists below. He'd like to get a k400. Anyone know of a k400 orphan without a home? ------------------ 2 channel: 1989 AK-2 Klipschorns AES AE-3 DJH tube preamp AES SE-1 SIG SET tube amp Denon 615 CDP Pair Northcreek 18" subs Mackie 1400i power amp HTS: Vidikron Kronos CRT Faroudja 2200 Scaler Denon 5800 receiver Denon DVD-1000 RCA DTC100 HD receiver Sonance in wall Velodyne HGS10 sub X-Box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Keep in mind that when building a wooden K400, it may be a good idea to plan for some vertical vanes in its mouth in order to give it "anti-resonance" rigidity that is provided in the original metal version by its being cast from aluminuim alloy. These vanes SHOULD have a "dual-dihedral" cross-section. My suggestion is to make the vanes out of mahogany...won't take much of it and that way the cost will be low...large disc sander is great for shaping those outside curves for the dihedrals, too!! Oscillating drum sander is great for shaping the bottom and top of each vane to fit the upward and downward curve of the horn lens mouth, too!!Trust me on this!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 09-20-2002 at 10:06 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyRyan Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 HDBRBuilder, It would be my hope that woodhorn.com would solicit your experience and opinion in their design. I've pointed them to this forum. ------------------ 2 channel: 1989 AK-2 Klipschorns AES AE-3 DJH tube preamp AES SE-1 SIG SET tube amp Denon 615 CDP Pair Northcreek 18" subs Mackie 1400i power amp HTS: Vidikron Kronos CRT Faroudja 2200 Scaler Denon 5800 receiver Denon DVD-1000 RCA DTC100 HD receiver Sonance in wall Velodyne HGS10 sub X-Box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I bought my solo K400 from BigDnfay from this BBS. At that time he had another. It may be a good reference for your projects. He also had a good collection of K55 drivers. JM ------------------ HT / Listening Environment: Mains: '83 Khorns All Heritage Center: K77, K400 above screen, Dual K22 in Heresy cabinets under screen. Sides: Forte 1 Subs: Dual SVS Ultra + Screen: 65"x120" DaLite Grey Projector: Sharp PG-M20X Processor: Lexicon MC-1 2 Ch Preamp: McIntosh C-36 Many NAD mono amps (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmar Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Hi guys, This sounds like an interesting possibility. I think the Khorns are a great speaker and I personally like the version of the corner horn with PWK standing next to it. This version has the horn sitting on top of the cabinet. The vanes would be a nice feature also. My first question is what are you looking for in sound that is different than your original K400 horn. Bill Martinelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 BMAR, He just built (or is in process of finishing) a pair of K-horn bass bins, and he wants to build the K-400 horn lenses for them...I don't think his point is to make them sound any differently from the metal K-400 horn lenses...he just wants to build the lenses, instead of using some metal ones. I also believe the speaker you are mentioning PWK standing beside in that picture is the Jubilee(which has not yet gone into production for the home version...the version in that picture). I am assuming that the picture you refer to is the one posted on the Klipsch website...the color picture with a quite elderly PWK standing next to a speaker with a horn on top of it. The Jubilee is a two-way speaker, using just its bass bin and one tweeter horn to provide its sound, whereas the K-horn is a three-way system...using its bass bin, a horn tweeter, and a midrange horn. The bass bins on these two speakers are nothing like each other except that the driver(drivers, in the case of the Jubilee) initially fire forward in the cabinets. The K-horn is powered by one 15" driver, whereas the Jubilee is powered by two active 12" drivers and one 12" drone(passive radiator) in its home version(the pro version, which IS currently in production, is powered by just the two active 12" drivers...no drone... and is a taller unit). The k-horn also requires a corner placement in order to "complete" its bass horn, whereas the Jubilee does not. The Jubilee is PWK's final speaker design...luckily he was able to listen to it in its finished version before his recent passing. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 09-22-2002 at 10:06 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 your better off horn loading a direct radiator for 300Hz-3000Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 I have been chatting with djk about these wooden K400 I had in mind and he has stated some interesting points.More importantly is that the horns not be made out of solid wood as Mr Martinelli usually does (hope Im correct on that),it sounds like laminations with even a layer of metal would add that required rigidity to "combat" the wood's resonance. Laminations to be laid up at 90 degrees to each other as in plywood, this would make adding the support fins a bit more difficult but still doable(if mounting them through the horn) surface mounting easier- but not as rigid.. HDBRbuilder- how far in do you feel the mouth supports should go into the horn and how many of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I would probably go with three vane struts per horn...ensuring that their angle kinda flows in an "array-type of pattern" with the side-to-side flare of the horn lens...the one in the center facing straight forward...don't lay them up when making the horn lens body, but shape them to EXACTLY fit the inside horn lens flare AFTER the lens body is finished being formed, and then install them using some woodworker superglue (I prefer "Hot Stuff Super 'T'...it doesn't take much, but you want the surface of the joining points to be completely covered, so that you never get any rattle out of those vanes there...be careful not to use TOO MUCH...it will run out everywhere on you!!...and is dificult to COMPLETELY clean-up!!)and securing them with small counter-sunk screws from the outside of the horn lens, through the lens, into the body of the vanes...top and bottom...that is how I would do it. If you so desire, you can then laminate another panel over the others on the outside of the horn lens and hide the screw holes in that way...OR lay some veneer over them...OR use a plug to match the wood to fill in the holes on the outside of the lens...lots of options there! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 09-22-2002 at 12:43 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 Thanks HDBRbuilder, how thick should the supports be do you think? One trick I use to avoid glue squeeze out is to place tape where the supports would go after they have been formed to fit and then cut out the tape where they would be adhered,this way any glue squeezes out onto the tape and is then easy to remove.Of course you would compensate for the very small amount of lost setback due to the tape thickness. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmar Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Yes the Jubilee is the cabinet I was referring to. This is a very handsome design, I hope it does well for Klipsch when final release is available. I also hear from the people I have been talking to that it isn't so much a sound difference that is desired yet better dispersion. I believe this can be accomplished with the throat piece used and the flare. The wood horn are not exactly "solid" wood, as in machined from a single source. The construction can be seen on my website of exactly how the horns are laid up and put together. Although this is not a true lamination. The side are assembled cross grained to the top and bottom. Wood resonance has not been an issue to date, and the tone of the wooden horn is what gives it the tone and sound that it has. It's possible that this could be what a person likes as in an aluminum Altec. Its also quite possible this is what would not be liked. At this time however, there are no plans to change the design into a laminated product. I think you'll find that the way the 4 pieces are laid up that this really wouldn't be an issue for anyone. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I admit the klipschorn is already very good sounding, but if I were to build some k-horn "clones" i would use a better type of midrange horns. I don't have k-horns, i have LaScalas, but they share the same K400 horns. Well IMHO those straight horns are way too much directional if you're not sitting far from the speakers in a very large room...that is, in a professional environment... see the "altec 511B" posts... really, you might want to build some other horns, not to mention they WOULDN'T necessarily need to be more difficult to build... just my thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 Shock-late- I have looked at the 511b but they wont fit in the khorn HF section will they, without to much modification ? How far would they protrude from the baffle and what are the rough dimensions of the 511 horn? Mr. Martinelli- yes Im aware you dont use a solid piece of would to make your horns. I will send you a pic of the horn as it is roughly 20 long 16 wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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