mr clean Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ive been listening to a lot of music. I know the upper crust wine tasting crowd say not to move your tone controls off 0 if you have them but with the last few systems I felt I needed to pump them up a fuzz. I have slowly been moving these from like +4 on bass and +7 on treble downward. After about an hour my head starts to pound from fatigue at the higher settings. I have them set flat now and it still seems to have plenty of life and sparkle. I going to try and listen the next few days like this to see if the headaches stop. Using the 280s as I think most know. I have a few more days before I have to decide if these are for me or not but so far tonight my head feels better even though I'm very tired from getting off mids at work. Im off for the next three days so I hope to figure this out. Back to the topic. Where do you run yours and have any of you ran into this problem? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 flat as a pancake... unless I am listening to 5.1, then room correction and timing become necessary. In all actuality, my 2 channel set up has zero provisions for tone control except component replacement. As simple as possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Bass and treble set to "0." I was using the loudness feature at low volume before adding my second sub, now its not needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Tone controls? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) If it sounds right, it is right. If tone controls make the music sound better, go ahead and use them. If you're getting headaches from listening to music I strongly recommend listening at quieter volumes that don't cause headaches. You could be damaging your hearing. Edited January 5, 2017 by hsosdrummer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I haven't had an amp the worked well enough to use tone controls, every time I have tried I hear what I call "hash" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 45 minutes ago, hsosdrummer said: If it sounds right, it is right. If tone controls make the music sound better, go ahead and use them. If you're getting headaches from listening to music I strongly recommend listening at quieter volumes that don't cause headaches. You could be damaging your hearing. I turn it up some at times but I'm really not turning it up that high. For sure not like the 70s and 80s! Ive worked in a chemical plant for over 30 years. I wear hearing protection but my ears are far from perfect. I do want to save what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Flat -- my preamp doesn't have tone controls, and I like it the way it sounds as is. I haven't had a preamp with tone controls since my long-ago Marantz 7C. I believe most higher-line electronics haven't had them for years. Ditto loudness controls. However, some vintage pre's and integrated amplifiers seem to sound better and fuller with the loudness on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 5, 2017 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Schu said: In all actuality, my 2 channel set up has zero provisions for tone control except component replacement. As simple as possible. Same here. Like an engineer once said, it's like a little salt and pepper, use it sparingly. I would guess it's not a problem with just a few clicks, really leaning on tone controls is not a good thing, especially with increased volumes. 2 hours ago, mr clean said: I wear hearing protection but my ears are far from perfect. I do want to save what I have. I'm in the same boat, There are charts online that give ratios of DB's with time allowed before damage, I try to not cause any more damage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I don't touch the tone control. A flat FR should help with the headaces and harshness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think it was operator error on the tone controls. Sounds so much better. Less is sometimes more. Those controls are like giving a machine gun to a 12 year old. A very bad idea. Thanks for the responses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Bass set at "0", treble set at "+2". This goes for all my setups, stereo rigs and HT. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Willand I have family not far from you. a sister in lake wells and a brother around lakeland. That sounds great at +2 also. I think on the treble I will bounce between flat and +2 based on the recording and the type of music. Im off work until saturday so just drinking coffee and listening to music. Might get brave and fire up the smoker later today. Going to smoke a turkey and use just little apple wood with it. Just like tone controls turkey and chicken just need a touch of smoke. One of my short list of talents is smoking meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2434 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I don’t like using tone controls from a philosophical standpoint. IMO, they are a “blunt force” way of adjusting tonal balance and put additional circuitry in the signal path. However, from a practical standpoint, I do use them in a couple a couple systems/situations: 1) RF-7 II: I reduce the treble to -2 on the Rotel RX-1052 2-ch receiver that powers them in a secondary 2-ch system. IMO, the tonal balance is too bright without some treble reduction. I previously ran Def Tech BP-10B and Energy RC-70 with flat tone controls in this room/system. Actually, the RC-70 sounded a bit dull and dark in this room/system, but I never bumped the treble up with them. Here’s where I’ve kind of come to regarding perfect tonal balance without using tone controls or EQ: I don’t like using tone controls, but the RF-7 II have other strengths/benefits that make we willing to make the compromise of reducing the treble a bit. Am I going to find a perfectly tonally balanced speaker (in this room with my ears) for $1,800/pair (RF-7 II B-stock price) that can match the dynamics, bass extension, and ability to play loud without strain powered by the Rotel RX-1052? Not sure…maybe…perhaps DIY or something used? Buying, auditioning, and selling floorstanding speakers can quickly become a pain…been there, done that. 2) Outdoor patio speakers: I increase the bass to near max to compensate for the lack of boundary reinforcement and relatively small size of the speakers. Folks have an aversion to tone controls, but what about sophisticated EQ implementations based on REW, Dirac, etc.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Much of what's going on is because of the psycho-acoustic sensory perceptual phenomenon of habituation - variance in the tonal balance presented to your ear is normalized by internal processes of audition. This is not a passive process but an active one that is in constant operation. The effect of this is the well known experience that any boost to bass or treble or volume initially sounds "better" or "more full and complete", but after a qhile it sounds normal. If the boost or variance is extreme enough to unduly load the habituation process, the creeping accumulation leads to a vague discomfort sometimes called "ear fatigue", in severe cases leading to the feeling of a mild headache. Apart from addressing actual anomalies in the room response or real deficiencies in the source recording engineering, the minimal or non-use of tone controls aligns with the idea that if your perception is going to normalize to something the best target toward which to normalize is the actual natural normal flat response, resulting in the least engagement of the habituation effort ( so you enjoy hearing music without the "loading effort" of the habituation process). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 24 minutes ago, pauln said: Much of what's going on is because of the psycho-acoustic sensory perceptual phenomenon of habituation - variance in the tonal balance presented to your ear is normalized by internal processes of audition. This is not a passive process but an active one that is in constant operation. The effect of this is the well known experience that any boost to bass or treble or volume initially sounds "better" or "more full and complete", but after a qhile it sounds normal. If the boost or variance is extreme enough to unduly load the habituation process, the creeping accumulation leads to a vague discomfort sometimes called "ear fatigue", in severe cases leading to the feeling of a mild headache. Apart from addressing actual anomalies in the room response or real deficiencies in the source recording engineering, the minimal or non-use of tone controls aligns with the idea that if your perception is going to normalize to something the best target toward which to normalize is the actual natural normal flat response, resulting in the least engagement of the habituation effort ( so you enjoy hearing music without the "loading effort" of the habituation process). pauln....are you a doctor, or did you just stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samhain1969 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Even though my setup is cross-over use (close proximity sitting and distance--PC setup) I have my tone controls set to ZERO (flat) w/no other processing effects in use and do prefer w/out any adjustments. For my setup, running flat works and sounds best to me. I know I'm going to get dinged here, but I do bi-wire my speakers to my AVR... Subtle improvement, but I'll take what I can get until my budget allows for a quality integrated; new or vintage (in great condition). Edited January 5, 2017 by samhain1969 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 My above comment about *sounds right = is right* notwithstanding, I rarely use my controller's tone controls. When I do it's only to compensate for source material severely lacking in bass or highs. I live alone in my own home, so I have the luxury of being able to listen at volume levels that are way outside typical WAF limits, so I almost never need to add loudness-type low listening-level compensation. I do find myself futzing around with the subwoofer level, though. The sub volume that sounds right for most music sources in my room is typically between 3dB and 5dB too hot for contemporary film soundtracks (especially those that are DTS-encoded — those DTS guys must LOVE too much bass). Again, however, this is source-material related, not system related. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I have found... that I can get great sound from many different setups and configurations... but I only get that last little percentage of dimension and lively air from a really simplified signal path. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 There is nothing wrong with using tone controls to help correct a room/speaker/recording deficiency. I don't use them because I went so long without them I didn't realize my Integra had them for a long time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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