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Forte III


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3 hours ago, jjptkd said:

So was it just the forte II that was not measured correctly or is it safe to say that all printed spec's before a certain date are not to be believed? You say you got better at testing, what does that even mean? Equipment changes?

They actually filmed the lunar landing at the Klipsch factory's anechoic chamber, so YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! It's been a smoke and mirror show all these years. Think Up in Smoke and Scarface rolled into a giant blunt

 

Mark

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8 hours ago, ZEUS121996 said:

They actually filmed the lunar landing at the Klipsch factory's anechoic chamber, so YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! It's been a smoke and mirror show all these years. Think Up in Smoke and Scarface rolled into a giant blunt

 

Mark

I thought my question was quite reasonable considering the Chief has gone on record to say that the published spec's of one speaker model (forte II) are incorrect due to improper measuring at the time, wouldn't it be safe to assume that would be true of other models as well?

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10 hours ago, jjptkd said:

I thought my question was quite reasonable considering the Chief has gone on record to say that the published spec's of one speaker model (forte II) are incorrect due to improper measuring at the time, wouldn't it be safe to assume that would be true of other models as well?

You need to quit saying things that I didn't say. 

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2 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

You need to quit saying things that I didn't say. 

Here's a play by play of what was said:

 

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:15 AM, Ski Bum said:

 

Very interesting.

I've always appreciated my forte II for their excellent bass response, a remarkable juggling act of extension, sensitivity, cab size, and tight, well defined bass.  Is it possible that the relative weakness in bass in your old fortes is due to your comparably huge room, and that you have your fortes perched up on big bass bins, off the floor and away from walls?

Also curious as to extension...original forte, forte II spec 32 (I get that sort of extension in room here, easily), but Roy said the III's only go to 38 hz.  Typo?

 

Better start saving those ducats for the III and some Fifteens.

 

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 4:34 PM, Chief bonehead said:

38 is it.  we measure a little better these days.....

 

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:11 AM, jjptkd said:

 

So the insinuation here is that the forte II didn't actually have a frequency response down to 32hz? Do you have data to support that or is this just speculation?

 

The new woofers in the forte III use the accordion style surround and presumably thinner cone usually designed for mid and upper bass frequencies where as the forte II woofer used more of a "sub" style rubber surround with a thick papered cone which typically do better in the lower frequencies. Is there a model number out yet for the new woofer?

 

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 3:27 PM, Chief bonehead said:

naw.  just making it up....

 

 

So you didn't say it directly but the insinuation is there or, you really were making it up and the spec's are correct?

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13 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Here's a play by play of what was said:

 

 

 

 

 

So you didn't say it directly but the insinuation is there or, you really were making it up and the spec's are correct?

Done. You don't get it  see ya!!   As I told deano , I don't owe you anything.   

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4 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Here's a play by play of what was said:

 

 

 

 

 

So you didn't say it directly but the insinuation is there or, you really were making it up and the spec's are correct?

Dude, quit the nonsense.

 

Prototypes were at CES, as they typically are.  They don't quote specs on prototypes to avoid confusion, in people like you who don't understand the difference between a design concept, working prototypes and a final product. 

 

Roy, as the Engineer on that speaker has been working on that speaker for over a year, he knows the specs of the prototypes, in very specific detail, but he isn't going to share more than he is comfortable with.  He is probably, just guessing, sourcing components.  

 

When he gets reference samples of components he will re-spec, re-tweak, until he is happy with it.

 

He knows where the specs will be, probably within a few percent, plus or minus, but he also listens.

 

They spec production speakers, you will get the specifications when everyone else does.

 

Or you can come to Pilgramage and listen for yourself.

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^^^^^

pretty much what you said. I understand this and other forums are generally for fun and good times but for the life of me what does someone gain by trying to show up or prove wrong one of Klipschs' lead engineers and understudy of PWK. This ain't no f'in inquisition.

Yeah, come to the April get together and attempt to prove Mr. Bonehead wrong in person. I'm thinkin' 'round these parts hoping to 'dis the Bonehead only makes you look foolish. And you gain ------?

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34 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Dude, quit the nonsense.

 

You totally missed my point, I'm not asking anything about the new speaker that does not have the spec's released yet, just a little clarity on the conversation above. It was inferred that the previous method of frequency response testing that was done years ago on the forte II (and presumably all of the speakers at that time) was somehow inferior to testing practices of today.  

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24 minutes ago, John Chi-town said:

Wow!  Why has such a simple question become so confrontational? Either the forte and forte II went down to 32HZ, or they did not.  If not, why cant a better explanation be provided other than flipped responses?

 

Best regards,

John

Did you mean to say flippant responses? Might fit better.

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10 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

You totally missed my point, I'm not asking anything about the new speaker that does not have the spec's released yet, just a little clarity on the conversation above. It was inferred that the previous method of frequency response testing that was done years ago on the forte II (and presumably all of the speakers at that time) was somehow inferior to testing practices of today.  

No, I think you're missing the point, which is best to quit digging yourself into a hole.  Your "inferred" and "insinuation" comments are your opinion, and nothing more.  I can pretty much guarantee that due to your mostly pissy attitude toward Roy that you won't get much further at all.    Nothing to be gained at this point, really.

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10 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

You totally missed my point, I'm not asking anything about the new speaker that does not have the spec's released yet, just a little clarity on the conversation above. It was inferred that the previous method of frequency response testing that was done years ago on the forte II (and presumably all of the speakers at that time) was somehow inferior to testing practices of today.  

He's schooling you like Paul Klipsch schooled him, he answers a question with a question.  You can infer nothing.

 

If you want to learn, you have to do your homework, and your research, and come back with a reasoned response.  Paul would tell him if he was on right or wrong track, and would ask another question.  He is five steps ahead of you, you either really want to learn, or you want to play games.

 

He designed the Forte II, he knows everything there is to know about it.

 

If you want to learn, ask him a well thought out question about the difference in testing, standards and techniques between the time of the testing of the II and today.

 

Otherwise move along.

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41 minutes ago, John Chi-town said:

Wow!  Why has such a simple question become so confrontational? Either the forte and forte II went down to 32HZ, or they did not.  If not, why cant a better explanation be provided other than flipped responses?

 

Best regards,

John

They did, and they do.  I think what he is suggesting to the person asking the question is that they need a full understanding of how testing was done for sub 100 hz FR, than and now.

 

Because @Chief bonehead doesn't answer questions that way, you get the benefit of a Paul Klipsch response, you get a response that leads you in the right direction if you are willing to do the work, and really want to learn.

 

That's how you develop a full and complete understanding of the underlying principles and science.  Why the four core design principles are the 4 principles.  

 

But you know all of this CePoorman, I am pretty sure you have asked Roy questions you have thought out, what your path was, where you were headed, and he answered.

 

Is the 32HZ of '89 today's 38?  Or was he being facetious?   I think I asked that question of him, in the context of how marketing was describing the III at CES.  He has also compared them to 396'see.

 

He designed and did the specs on the "2" 25 years ago, maybe he could care less about specs of the 2 because he is focusing on making the 3 as good as it possibly could be?

 

Maybe he figures that everyone has a microphone and a laptop these days and people will post their own plots and curves, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

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