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Forte III

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8 minutes ago, avguytx said:

Without reading through all 28 pages, what's going to be the recommended distance from the wall for a pair of these?  I'd entertain the idea of buying a pair of Forte 3's but I don't want them pulled out a foot or more into the room when I'm already about 12 feet away from the fronts of the CF-3's.  I'd hate to spend that kind of money on speakers just to have them not perform like others have.  Case in point...keeping my CF-3's and selling the Cornwalls.  I don't want to step backwards in low end after spending that kind of money (it won't be at retail/MSRP, mind you....) but I also do want them standing that far out into the room.  The CF-3's are almost up against the wall and they work great like that.

 

Just curious.

I'd stick with your current setup.  At the Klipsch plant listening room a few weeks ago, the Forte III's were pulled out at least 8 inches.

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I might could work with that but would still be pushed out more than I'd like.  I am not thrilled with this living room nor a fan of the house (wife already had it when we got married).  By later this year or early next, we're either building a new one or buying something else.  I won't care as much about the living room then as it WILL have a dedicated audio room in it away from the main parts of the house whether that be above the garage, etc., but a good sized room.  Then I can bring my 1300+ LP's from my best friends house back to mine.

 

Thanks for the honest opinion, Jim.

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I'm curious how much "better" they are than the Forte IIs. Would it be enough improvement to sell the F2 for the F3s? I don't really plan on it but if I had the money, I would if for nothing else to get sweet looking veneer and grill options.

 

 

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On 5/10/2017 at 10:06 AM, CECAA850 said:

The RF-7's had slightly less of a mid range presence but otherwise pretty close.

 

I think they are voiced better than the RF-7ii's.  When you switch back and forth between a 396 and RF-7ii, the 7's sound kind of shouty comparatively, and these sound more like a 396.  That midrange horn is where the magic is, just sounds more accurate I think.  

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31 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

Special editions very soon, was supposed to be early this month.  The normal / cheaper sets probably won't be until next month.  

 

Wooo HOOOO !!
Even though I had to spend big bucks last week unexpectedly this is still a thrill to hear.  

The California Black Walnut is special on other models. Do you know if they are $1800 each or are the regular ones that much.

Don't fret if you don't know, sure I'm not the only one that appreciates your input already.
Thinking driving to New England for 40 yr old big folded woofer Klipsch (needing some Crites help) might not be the best for me. Decisions.......
Going to see some LaScalas downtown here tomorrow before the puck-drop. 
Getting excited like a kid that sees something in Christmas wrapping paper on the top shelf of the closet!

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43 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

I think they are voiced better than the RF-7ii's.  When you switch back and forth between a 396 and RF-7ii, the 7's sound kind of shouty comparatively, and these sound more like a 396.  That midrange horn is where the magic is, just sounds more accurate I think.  

This is my exact feelings after hearing them at the gathering.

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1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

Do you know if they are $1800 each or are the regular ones that much.

 

They are more.  This is the last pricing I have received but it's at least a few months old at this point.  The biggest question is whether distressed white oak is going to happen and what will the final pricing be.  Last I heard it's supposed to be priced like the normal ones but this was questionable as of a month ago and it may not even happen.  Not sure yet.  

 

• Forte III - Cherry / Black / Walnut (normal finishes)

      - MSRP $3,600 PR

• CA Blk Walnut - Linen Grill Cloth

      - MSRP $4,600 PR 

 

• Matte Black w/ 70th Anniversary Grill cloth

      - MSRP $4,000 PR 

 

 

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On 5/10/2017 at 2:43 PM, CECAA850 said:

The 396's and 402's (same B&C driver) use titanium if that tells you anything.

 

I can't confirm some of this so don't blame me for spreading BS, but there's supposedly a couple of things that make those so smooth.  First of all it is the older B&C 75, which has I believe mylar surrounds.  The new version is full titanium even on the surrounds and is supposedly a bit harsher.  Also I think the K-691 is actually a modified version of the 75, I was told that they do something to harden the dome / diaphram.  

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On 5/10/2017 at 9:01 AM, CECAA850 said:

  I'm sure I'll be scorned for this but I'll put my thoughts out there.  When I was listening to the Forte III's I was listening to the music.  What I mean by that is I was closing my eyes, placing the instruments, hearing all the different nuances in the recording.  When they switched to the K-horns (which were NOT level matched for some reason) I immediately felt I was listening to the speaker. 

 

This is going to get me shot I'm sure, but personally I don't like the sound of K-horns much.  I appreciate and revere the history but I just don't care for the sound of them.  The only thing I've heard in the demo room that sounded good was an old acapella recording with lots of low midrange.  When they play modern music through them I just don't like the sound of them.  Jubilees are way better for that in my opinion.  To be honest, all the designs that Roy primarily worked on are my favorites.  396, Forte III, Jubilees, even the small pro stuff like KI-172, they just sound like how I envision something nice ought to sound, particularly with the voicing.  

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16 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

• CA Blk Walnut - Linen Grill Cloth

      - MSRP $4,600 PR 

 

• Matte Black w/ 70th Anniversary Grill cloth

      - MSRP $4,000 PR 

 

 

Yikes!

Well to be honest the 70th and Spec. Edit. Cornwalls have an almost 50% markup, likewise those sharp Heresy counterparts.

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54 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

This is going to get me shot I'm sure, but personally I don't like the sound of K-horns much.  I appreciate and revere the history but I just don't care for the sound of them.  The only thing I've heard in the demo room that sounded good was an old acapella recording with lots of low midrange.  When they play modern music through them I just don't like the sound of them.  Jubilees are way better for that in my opinion.

I have exactly the opposite opinion, so there you go......

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3 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

I have exactly the opposite opinion, so there you go......

We'll you know what they say about opinions. .............

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6 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

That midrange horn is where the magic is, just sounds more accurate I think.  

 

That's what I find most exciting about it, I've always thought that having a separate mid-horn was why I liked the sound of the Heresy so much more than the RP-280F. To my ear the sound is much richer when the mids get their own.

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It has begun!

While searching came across this view from the back and maybe some walnut veneer at Klipsch-twitter. The passive radiator does look like it's on a finished product now.

3 days ago (6-4).jpg

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On 6/3/2017 at 2:20 AM, chriswhotakesphotos said:

 

That's what I find most exciting about it, I've always thought that having a separate mid-horn was why I liked the sound of the Heresy so much more than the RP-280F. To my ear the sound is much richer when the mids get their own.

 

Midrange sounds significantly better than the Heresy.  

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I thought these would be shipping by now but I guess not, they're saying July now.  Preordered some california walnuts and matte black ones yesterday but I still gotta wait.  Real curious about the distressed white oak, have yet to see a picture of that finish on anything.  

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On 4/9/2017 at 11:21 AM, Keith_M said:

If I recall correctly from years ago, the use of passive bass radiators flared briefly among some speaker manufacturers but was eventually abandoned because, although providing more bass, it was sloppy bass. Did Klipsch discontinue the Forte for this reason? Or, was the Forte the exception, and if so, how?

A passive radiator and a port serve the same function. Here's a list of pros and cons to compare the two

  1. Passive Radiators are a lot more expensive than ports.
  2. Passive Radiators can freely adjust their Q, whereas Q is fixed for ports. You can make the Passive Radiator operate over a wider bandwidth, but doing so results in less output than a narrower bandwidth. The only way to maintain a flat tonal balance is to add EQ in the electronic domain - which is a free lunch if it's available. EQ tricks work with ports too, but the bandwidth of the port is fixed by the rest of the design. The point here is flexibility - the PR is more flexible from an alignment perspective.
  3. Max SPL of a Passive Radiator is a function of its total displacement. The Passive Radiator needs more than double the excursion of the active driver to bring about any appreciable increase in output at the lower frequencies.
  4. Passive radiator distortion is limited by the linearity of its suspension. The distortion of a port is limited by the linearity of the air rushing through the port (which turns out isn't very linear). At low SPL's the distortion from both is very comparable. At higher SPL's, the passive radiator starts to be more linear. As the SPL increases to near the limit of the suspension, the passive radiator has a lot more distortion than the port. In fact, it sounds horrendous when the passive radiator bottoms out - it's almost like a muffled clack sound. The port just continues to chuff more and more (sounds like wind blowing). The clip behavior of a port sounds better than the clip behavior of a passive radiator - this is important when trying to take advantage of EQ tricks.
  5. Ports have resonances in them that can sound like whistles if its not controlled. Passive Radiators don't have this problem.

At the end of the day, you get more bang for the buck with a port. In my mind, the biggest advantage to a passive radiator would be when the box is too small to fit a properly sized port - in which case, you need EQ in the system to offset the rolloff from the small cabinet. This often requires putting them in a dual opposed configuration so that there momentum is cancelled out - which is necessary to keep the cabinet from walking around. If cost is no concern, then it's possible to design a passive radiator to sound better than a port - just as long as you don't ever run the system into clipping.

 

In the case of the Chorus II - I converted mine from passive radiators to a port and I can say the port sounds a lot better. I think this is due to the lack of linearity and excursion capability in the stock passive radiator suspension. Or maybe my passives wore out after all these years, who knows.

 

The Forte III has a 12" active driver and 15" passive radiator, which is a much better balance than the old Chorus II configuration.

 

Btw, somewhere someone mentioned placement flexibility. Honestly, a rear port and a rear passive radiator are going to have the same placement restrictions. You should be toe'ing in your speakers anyway, which means you're naturally going to have enough space behind the cabinet, even if one corner is almost against the wall. This is more than enough space for either the port or the passive to "breathe". 

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