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jason str

Jubilee, Klipschorn, LaScala horn loaded bass bins.

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I just looked over my plans for the BFM DR series cabinets and they all cross over much higher (~2000 Hz) to the tweeters using rounded corners throughout so there must be some merit to the rounded corner theory. Probably not something easy to make being mass produced. 

 

 

DR250.jpg

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9 hours ago, jason str said:

I just looked over my plans for the BFM DR series cabinets and they all cross over much higher (~2000 Hz) to the tweeters using rounded corners throughout so there must be some merit to the rounded corner theory. Probably not something easy to make being mass produced. 

 

 

DR250.jpg

Its not hard if its molded.

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On 1/24/2017 at 8:51 PM, jwc said:

I have many opinions on horn loaded bass regarding pros and cons and my experience.  Making from scratch and listening to others.....

 

Every setup has a compromise.

 

When the Jubilee is the focus of the discussion....two things come to my mind......

 

1.  If you want a fully horn loaded system without the use of a subwoofer, the Jubilee "systems" are the best.

2.  If you want a fully horn loaded 2-way system without the use of a subwoofer, the Jubilee "systems" are the best.

 

jwc, I came across some of these pictures on ItIsHifi blog, I believe this straight horn is yours? If so do you mind saying a bit more about it? I'm interested in various midbass horns with the K-402.

 

f05MoPa.jpg

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Now there's a blast from the past.  Plus the old 403.  No one ever talks about that anymore when the Jubilee comes up.  Sure is worth mentioning though.

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1 hour ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

jwc, I came across some of these pictures on ItIsHifi blog, I believe this straight horn is yours? If so do you mind saying a bit more about it? I'm interested in various midbass horns with the K-402.

 

f05MoPa.jpg

 

Minus the sub I own the tractrix horns and the K403 horns. This two way doesn't go down low maybe 70hz 80hz? I dunno. I built a passive line level crossover 600hz bi amp with tubes and this is fun. I really enjoy it. When I veneer my Jubs this system goes back in place.

IMG_8493.JPG

When my attic is built out they are going up there with the other bass horns.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Now there's a blast from the past.  Plus the old 403.  No one ever talks about that anymore when the Jubilee comes up.  Sure is worth mentioning though.

 

Oh yeah I'm digging deep to find out info on the Jubilee. All the prowess of the Google :lol:

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2 hours ago, seti said:

 

Minus the sub I own the tractrix horns and the K403 horns. This two way doesn't go down low maybe 70hz 80hz? I dunno. I built a passive line level crossover 600hz bi amp with tubes and this is fun. I really enjoy it. When I veneer my Jubs this system goes back in place.

IMG_8493.JPG

When my attic is built out they are going up there with the other bass horns.

 

 

 

Are you getting horn loading down to 80 Hz or is it acting more like a direct radiator down that low? Do you mind offering more details like the rough dimensions and drivers used? Thanks.

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59 minutes ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

Are you getting horn loading down to 80 Hz or is it acting more like a direct radiator down that low? Do you mind offering more details like the rough dimensions and drivers used? Thanks.

 

Don't ask me the hard questions maybe JC will chime in as I just listen to them. 

 

They are big heavy and they have two Eminence Pro Delta-12A each. Those are 12s. I believe I posted the plans as well on itishifi.com.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Neat stage.  What's behind the curtain?

 

The only other bass bin I ever saw with 403 horns was a Jub.  The original ones no one talks about anymore.

 

C'mon....................someone post THAT PICTURE we all know is out there.

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51 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Neat stage.  What's behind the curtain?

 

The only other bass bin I ever saw with 403 horns was a Jub.  The original ones no one talks about anymore.

 

C'mon....................someone post THAT PICTURE we all know is out there.

 

This one. I love the K403.

5pwk.jpg

Behind the curtain? Dancing girls of course.

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On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 8:20 PM, jwc said:

Does the Tuba have any 90 degree or greater turns

My mistake...what I'm referring to is greater than 90 meaning really less than 90.  Such as making a horn with an angle 90 or "less" is the challenge....not greater.

 

Like a dummy......I was referring to greater meaning less than 90.....my bad.  Less than or equal to 90 degrees is the "greater" challenge.

 

So the tuba has greater than 90 but not less.  I asked the question in the wrong way.

 

You see...this is a constant tubular expansion....which is not what I was discussing with Jason.  I'm referring to the argument of circular reflector at 90 or "less" turn.  This is what needs to be answered for building "folded bass horns"

 

The tubas turns are greater than 90.  I think this type of Horn poses a different question.....which I'm not really interested in.

 

Jason brings up a point that I banged around in my head when scratching up my own designs....

 

But lets look at the Jube for a second.  So there is a 90 degree or less turn firing to the back and two 90 degree turns to bring the sound front to the front of the horn.  So....."""What would happen if those three reflectors were not 'hard reflectors' and instead were rounded""".  The front reflector is not a full reflector (like 3/4).  The back two are (Huygens) to make ~180 degree turn.

 

jc

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12 hours ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

Are you getting horn loading down to 80 Hz or is it acting more like a direct radiator down that low? Do you mind offering more details like the rough dimensions and drivers used? Thanks.

Horn loaded to about 70Hz then drops like a rock.  Intended to go with subs.  

 

These horns are calculated 90Hz flared tractrix "FULL Space" down the millimeter expansion.  Just putting them in the room goes down to 70Hz.

 

This the least compromised design I ever put together.......Besides needing a sub :)

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14 minutes ago, jwc said:

My mistake...what I'm referring to is greater than 90 meaning really less than 90.  Such as making a horn with an angle 90 or "less" is the challenge....not greater.

diagram-261.jpg

16Adatasheet1.jpg

 

The point I think is that both Beranek and Olson studied this issue in the 1950s, well after these WE horns were created and used in cinemas for as much as 25 years at that point. These were full-range horns--limited only by the drivers attached. The physics of how to do that and the effects of not doing it well were studied and implemented.  Smooth-radius turns with thinner depth horns in the turns was normal practice. 

 

Those WE horns command top dollar nowadays.  I'm not sure that I'd like a pair of those in my listening room, however...

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Oh yea...there are bass horns bigger and longer than that.......Seti has seen some first hand.

 

Again......the constant tubular expansion is somewhat of a novelty for discussion.....There is no 90 degree turns or more acute there.

 

 

somebody show me a bass horn with rounded reflectors that is intended to go out to 500Hz?

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11 minutes ago, jwc said:

rounded reflectors

What is a "rounded reflector"?

 

Tubas (if you punched the link that I provided to you from Wikipedia) provide about ~40 Hz to ~380 Hz - a decade of performance.  That's about all you're going to get in those frequency bands.  This range exceeds that of the double bass (string bass). 

 

Some tubas are even bigger: 29 Hz into full space (about 24 feet total tube length). 

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2 hours ago, Chris A said:

diagram-261.jpg

16Adatasheet1.jpg

 

The point I think is that both Beranek and Olson studied this issue in the 1950s, well after these WE horns were created and used in cinemas for as much as 25 years at that point. These were full-range horns--limited only by the drivers attached. The physics of how to do that and the effects of not doing it well were studied and implemented.  Smooth-radius turns with thinner depth horns in the turns was normal practice. 

 

Those WE horns command top dollar nowadays.  I'm not sure that I'd like a pair of those in my listening room, however...

 

The 16A has been one my favorite horns ever since I saw one first in person then later heard one. It is really fun. I didn't know they were worth a kings ransom until later. They are reproductions out there for $5k. These is the ultimate industrial art imo. 

 

One of my fave pics. PWK checking the throat on a 15A.

 

PWK+WE.jpg

 

https://we16ahorn.blogspot.com/2013/07/because-of-we-16a-horn-is-very-rare-and.html

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Blue - full reflector

red  - ~ 3/4 reflector

Green - curved reflector or "rounded reflector" or "rounded turn"

reflector-hack.jpg

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So basically, I'm not thinking what yall are thinking.  Sorry, will stay out.

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