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jason str

Jubilee, Klipschorn, LaScala horn loaded bass bins.

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So with the presented theories here.....

So this is how you get the high pitched squeaky ones?  Look at all those "rounded turns".

 

 

rounded bass horn.jpg

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^^^^^

following this topic from afar but that looks like it would make a shitt pile of bass!?

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18 minutes ago, jwc said:

So basically, I'm not thinking what yall are thinking.  Sorry, will stay out.

No. no...I was just making sure that I understood what you were saying.  That's what I thought you were saying, BTW.

 

One of the things that is important is not only that the turns are curved, but that the radii of those turns is controlled to a the most gentle curvature when the total curves are less than 1/2 wavelength of the lowest frequency to be transmitted without attenuation.  That can be found in Beranek, section 9.10 "Bends in Horns", pg. 278 of the 1991 edition. That's why the Western Electric horns look like they do. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

jwc, I came across some of these pictures on ItIsHifi blog, I believe this straight horn is yours? If so do you mind saying a bit more about it? I'm interested in various midbass horns with the K-402.

 

 

 

It can...and do well.  Very very hard to build....

 

 

IMG_2136-small.jpg

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My first straight axis horn....

 

 

IMG_0878-small.jpg

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@jwc I am ignorant. How do these bass horns compare with the the kit available from Fastlane? Is the kit based on one of these?

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3 hours ago, jwc said:

Blue - full reflector

red  - ~ 3/4 reflector

Green - curved reflector or "rounded reflector" or "rounded turn"

reflector-hack.jpg

 

Its not just the reflector (outer radius) that needs to be rounded but the inside corner (inner radius) as well acting as a true waveguide.

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1 hour ago, jwc said:

 

It can...and do well.  Very very hard to build....

 

 

IMG_2136-small.jpg

 

Very nice, what kind of flare is that on the bass bin ?

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15 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Its not just the reflector that needs to be rounded but the inside corner as well acting as a true waveguide.

Isn't there a "square" corner at the top and bottom also? I mean how far do you want to go with this? Again i am ignorant.

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21 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Its not just the reflector that needs to be rounded but the inside corner as well acting as a true waveguide.

Then you and I were speaking of different things then.

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40 minutes ago, babadono said:

@jwc I am ignorant. How do these bass horns compare with the the kit available from Fastlane? Is the kit based on one of these?

I will get a curve this weekend....

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This thread went off in a tangent......My apologies as I entered with intent on comparison of other Klipsch offerings.

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4 minutes ago, jwc said:

Then you and I were speaking of different things then.

 

I don't think so, it all started with my understanding that folds diminish midbass details and just running its course. Very educational to say the least.

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13 minutes ago, babadono said:

Isn't there a "square" corner at the top and bottom also? I mean how far do you want to go with this? Again i am ignorant.

 

There is and would need to be modified as well.

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Think in terms of impedance discontinuities.  Any non-smooth transitions will reflect acoustic energy back toward the source and generate higher-order modes within the horn that will exit the horn's mouth at frequencies above 1/2 wavelength corresponding to about 1.2 times the width of the channel at that discontinuity (i.e., the sound of "frying bacon" in HF horns).  That's the difference in hard corners vs. smoothly transitioning corners--i.e., no edges.

 

Those HOMs also interact with the driver's diaphragm below that 1/2 wavelength HOM "cut-on frequency", even if they don't propagate out the mouth of the horn. 

 

All this information is available in Geddes's online papers, his book, and the Richard C. Morgans PhD thesis online from the University of Adelaide.

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Chris, i was pondering over what you have said throughout the thread and think it may just be the combination of the narrow polar coverage due to the wide separation of the horn itself and less folds throughout. Seems both would make a difference in the end result.

 

Also did a bit of design in my head using minimum custom parts forming and clamping 1/8" BB around a jig but that would have to be discussed in the modification section, if anybody wants to discuss designs just start ot bump another thread there.

 

 

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19 hours ago, seti said:

 

Don't ask me the hard questions maybe JC will chime in as I just listen to them. 

 

They are big heavy and they have two Eminence Pro Delta-12A each. Those are 12s. I believe I posted the plans as well on itishifi.com.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I'll look for the plans. Another fan of Dave Slagle (had one of his attenuators in an older system) and Jeffrey Jackson here. Never met either of them.

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4 hours ago, jwc said:

 

It can...and do well.  Very very hard to build....

 

 

IMG_2136-small.jpg

 

I'm not planning to build any of this stuff myself. I'm currently shopping around for acousticians to work with designing a room from scratch, hopefully trying to keep some of the large wavelength absorbers hidden in false walls, etc. I'm really intrigued by straight midbass horns, all the ones I've heard sounded better to me than tapped horns when operated up high (beyond sub bass). This is referring to acoustic bass and cello only, not home theater or rock.

 

Dropping off at 70 or 80 Hz, what sort of acoustic space are we talking about?

 

I hope the thread starter doesn't mind this tangent. I will create another thread if it's an issue.

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On 1/27/2017 at 3:40 PM, jazzmessengers said:

 

Thanks, I'll look for the plans. Another fan of Dave Slagle (had one of his attenuators in an older system) and Jeffrey Jackson here. Never met either of them.

 

They are good guys to deal with and I trust their ears. I've heard their systems and they are beautiful. I'm going to New York this year to hear their new stuff and Wheel Fi.. Dave Slagle just posted many different new options for autoformers today. Check it out http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html

 

 

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13 minutes ago, seti said:

They are good guys to deal with and I trust their ears. I've heard their systems and they are beautiful. I'm going to New York this year to hear their new stuff and Wheel Fi..

That Wheel Fi process video is beyond awesome.  There are some fantastic people out there following their dream.

 

http://www.wheel-fi.com/process/

 

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