Jubilee's vs K-horns

[Coytee]

1 hour ago, AaronB123 said:

 I can see that the farther away I get the bigger the soundstage and richer the sound becomes.

 

After trying that out I can say with almost 100% certainty that the reason it's not sounding how I want is because my room is too small for them. 

 

When I had my Khorns, I stumbled onto a spot where they sounded FANTASTIC!  This spot was 30 feet away (I measured)  After I had the Jubilee's for a while, I went to that spot to hear how much more fantastic they could sound....and interestingly....  they didn't sound any better.  The Jubilee's sounded just as good 30' away as they did while standing 10' away.  Perplexed, I attributed it to their having an aligned signal inside the active crossover.  It was later explained (and proven to myself) that it had nothing to do with the signal alignment...but rather, it was going from a 3-way down to a 2-way and losing that crossover point.  Now, from (around) 400hz on up, everything was coming out of the single horn on top.  Coherence and intelligibility went way up AND, I had this increased quality of sound from about 10' from the speaker rather than having to stand 30' away.  It was a real eye-opening moment for me.

 

1 hour ago, AaronB123 said:

The question is, would the jubilee's sound better.. 

 

As I like to sometimes say...when PWK created the Khorn, he had how many years of experience building horn speakers?  I don't pretend to know the answer but I'm guessing it's zero.  When he set out to create the Jubilee, he had 50 years of experience behind him....  do you think it's reasonable that he learned a trick or two in those 50 years?

 

I was once over at someone's house.  They had been to mine and heard the Jubilee's.  He wanted me to hear his Khorns....he cranked them up (to pants flapping levels)  It was the first time I heard it.....the congestion in the sound.  The Juibilee, with its 2" throat will match the Khorn for volume and keep the quality of sound on a much higher level.  Hands down Jubilee.  But (says a casual reader) I don't listen to it at pants flapping levels, I listen at low levels!  Fine...  then you will still come to love the coherence of the sound coming together much closer than the 3-ways.

 

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

Coytee has a preference for the Jubilees.

 

I don't know where you get that idea nor why you keep perpetuating it...

 

 

I did however, decide to buy the Jubilee after about a 30 second audition (the intro to "Hotel California")  Once I heard that drum kick pressurize the room, it was all over.  It was an amazing experience.  Came home, listed the Khorns for sale and they were gone by that next weekend.  I've not missed them since.

 

 

[AaronB123]

7 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

When I had my Khorns, I stumbled onto a spot where they sounded FANTASTIC!  This spot was 30 feet away (I measured)  After I had the Jubilee's for a while, I went to that spot to hear how much more fantastic they could sound....and interestingly....  they didn't sound any better.  The Jubilee's sounded just as good 30' away as they did while standing 10' away.  Perplexed, I attributed it to their having an aligned signal inside the active crossover.  It was later explained (and proven to myself) that it had nothing to do with the signal alignment...but rather, it was going from a 3-way down to a 2-way and losing that crossover point.  Now, from (around) 400hz on up, everything was coming out of the single horn on top.  Coherence and intelligibility went way up AND, I had this increased quality of sound from about 10' from the speaker rather than having to stand 30' away.  It was a real eye-opening moment for me.

 

 

As I like to sometimes say...when PWK created the Khorn, he has how many years of experience building horn speakers?  I don't pretend to know the answer but I'm guessing it's zero.  When he set out to create the Jubilee, he had 50 years of experience behind him....  do you think it's reasonable that he learned a trick or two in those 50 years?

 

I was once over at someone's house.  They had been to mine and heard the Jubilee's.  He wanted me to hear his Khorns....he cranked them up (to pants flapping levels)  It was the first time I heard it.....the congestion in the sound.  The Juibilee, with its 2" throat will match the Khorn for volume and keep the quality of sound on a much higher level.  Hands down Jubilee.  But (says a casual reader) I don't listen to it at pants flapping levels, I listen at low levels!  Fine...  then you will still come to love the coherence of the sound coming together much closer than the 3-ways.

 

 

I don't know where you get that idea nor why you keep perpetuating it...

 

 

I did however, decide to buy the Jubilee after about a 30 second audition (the intro to "Hotel California")  Once I heard that drum kick pressurize the room, it was all over.  It was an amazing experience.  Came home, listed the Khorns for sale and they were gone by that next weekend.  I've not missed them since.

 

 

I have to say that you really do bring up an incredible point about how when PWK made the K horns he really didn't have much experience vs when he made the Jubilees and I will admit when I was on my quest to buy K-horns I did get messages from a couple people saying I should get Jubilee's instead but being hard headed that I am I had a one track mind and was set on the K-horns. Like I said though not that they are bad at all by any means I just do believe they probably aren't the best match for my room. 

 

Also I never knew you could buy brand new Jubilee's as I mentioned I thought those were only to be custom built. Klipsch really shouldn't hide the pro gear section lol. Well I guess they don't really hide it, now that I know where it is it's pretty much in plain sight I just always overlooked it before. 

[AaronB123]

It's more than just the midrange and all that though it's also the bass horn! The way the Jubilee has it firing into the room is going to be a lot better for my room as well. The K-horn with the design that uses the walls is a good design of course but not for my room. I've got way too many obstructions around both of them that I am sure is messing with the bass. Even though I will say the bass they create is very good! I know exactly what your talking about when you say the pressure from the bass in the room. I felt the exact same thing with the song Goodnight Saigon by Billy Joel. 

[RSVRMAN]

I did an absolute insane amount of reading before I ordered my jubilees. (And I'm still not done) I have not heard khorns and really had to go after it to find the info. Thankfully everyone on this forum that has them was very kind to explain how they sound, how they set theirs up and how they use them. Without their advice I would still be undecided on what to get and may have bought khorns. I never intended my post/thread to become as popular as it did, but with well over 4000 reads and I haven't even received them, shows the thirst for them. I'm hoping future prospects can use that thread as a starting point and go from there.

 

I wish klipsch would start marketing them in a consumer line. I'm not sure if they are or are not better as I'm going on everyone else's subjective opinion. Though selling something that is unchanged with 70+ years of heritage is a lot easier to market than educate the masses about the jubilee. My $.02

 

[AaronB123]

2 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said:

I did an absolute insane amount of reading before I ordered my jubilees. (And I'm still not done) I have not heard khorns and really had to go after it to find the info. Thankfully everyone on this forum that has them was very kind to explain how they sound, how they set theirs up and how they use them. Without their advice I would still be undecided on what to get and may have bought khorns. I never intended my post/thread to become as popular as it did, but with well over 4000 reads and I haven't even received them, shows the thirst for them. I'm hoping future prospects can use that thread as a starting point and go from there.

 

I wish klipsch would start marketing them in a consumer line. I'm not sure if they are or are not better as I'm going on everyone else's subjective opinion. Though selling something that is unchanged with 70+ years of heritage is a lot easier to market than educate the masses about the jubilee. My $.02

 

What dealer did you go through to order yours? 

[thebes]

Khorns Pluses:

 

Proven sound machines with stellar acoustics

Will make your pants bulge with the right music

Refined over 70 years

Can knock squirrels out of trees

 

Negatories:

 

Need serious effort to make them sound right

Can strip the music bare and leave it wanting

Can be bright but can also be overdriven

Do not treat lazy audiophiles well who think the world is plug and play

 

Jub Pluses:

 

Massive soundstage and presence

They can give you a tube experience without tubes

Can make your girlfriends pants bulge (er, I think I need to work on this one)

Created by the only true genius left at Klipsch Corp

Reward lazy audiophiles by sounding great without much work

Can make rabbits pop out of their holes

 

Negatories:

 

Colossally ugly

Need convoluted suspect passive xover design

With active xovers they are anathema to any concept of a simple signal chain

Suffers from being the bastard stepchild or Klipsch Corp.

Because of the crossover question they must be considered a different approach to sound from The Founder's decades of thinking on sound reproduction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AaronB123]

2 minutes ago, thebes said:

Khorns Pluses:

 

Proven sound machines with stellar acoustics

Will make your pants bulge with the right music

Refined over 70 years

Can knock squirrels out of trees

 

Negatories:

 

Need serious effort to make them sound right

Can strip the music bare and leave it wanting

Can be bright but can also be overdriven

Do not treat lazy audiophiles well who think the world is plug and play

 

Jub Pluses:

 

Massive soundstage and presence

They can give you a tube experience without tubes

Can make your girlfriends pants bulge (er, I think I need to work on this one)

Created by the only true genius left at Klipsch Corp.

Reward lazy audiophiles by sounding great without much work

 

Negatories:

 

Colossally ugly

Need convoluted suspect passive xover design

With active xovers they are anathema to any concept of a simple signal chain

Suffers from being the bastard stepchild or Klipsch Corp.

Because of the crossover question they must be considered a different approach to sound from The Founder's decades of thinking on sound reproduction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there ugly at all I think they actually look amazing but everything else I agree with! That huge sounstage is what I am looking for!

[thebes]

Silly rabbit.  You said in an earlier post that there is a pipe in the way of one of your Khorns.

 

If you are unwilling to to move that pipe, no matter what it takes, to properly tuck that bad boy into a corner, then that makes you a lazy audiophile.  Now this good for rationalizing buying Jubs but which means you've never really, really, really worked on bringing out the magic of Khorns.

[AaronB123]

4 minutes ago, thebes said:

Silly rabbit.  You said in an earlier post that there is a pipe in the way of one of your Khorns.

 

If you are unwilling to to move that pipe, no matter what it takes, to properly tuck that bad boy into a corner, then that makes you a lazy audiophile.  Now this good for rationalizing buying Jubs but which means you've never really, really, really worked on bringing out the magic of Khorns.

That's a main water pipe going into the house, I checked theres no way to move it and also my K-s have closed backs so I really don't think it's affecting them too much. 

[oldtimer]

Shut off the water.  Slice into the pipe and install elbows.  Ah never mind, get Jubs.

[thebes]

Now see. OT has that all-American "can do" attitude we  seasoned audiophiles are looking for.

 

Slice into those pipes.  What could possibly go wrong?

[Lost240]

5 hours ago, AaronB123 said:

 

Ya,  tried different placement's the closer I bring them to me the smaller and thinner the soundstage got. I can definitely tell that in a larger room these things would be killer because I can see that the farther away I get the bigger the soundstage and richer the sound becomes. The best place by far is with them all the way in the corners. 

 

After trying that out I can say with almost 100% certainty that the reason it's not sounding how I want is because my room is too small for them. 

Can you try building a couple false walls for bringing the khorns closer together? They sound like tv speakers because even though yours have closed backs you are still losing the last fold of the horn once you move them away from the corners.

[AaronB123]

22 minutes ago, Lost240 said:

Can you try building a couple false walls for bringing the khorns closer together? They sound like tv speakers because even though yours have closed backs you are still losing the last fold of the horn once you move them away from the corners.

It wasn't even just the bass that sounded thin, it was everything. I don't think bringing them closer will solve the issue. I think the only way to get them to reach their full potential would be to put them in a bigger room. 

[Coytee]

4 hours ago, RSVRMAN said:

I wish klipsch would start marketing them in a consumer line.

 

Grasshopper, be careful what you ask for.  I don't pretend to know prices, but if they made them as a residential speaker, you know, all prettied up with a lot of lipstick....  they could be a lot more expensive.  As it is now, they're taking a cinema speaker, slapping the lipstick on with maybe a hula skirt...

[Lost240]

1 hour ago, AaronB123 said:

It wasn't even just the bass that sounded thin, it was everything. I don't think bringing them closer will solve the issue. I think the only way to get them to reach their full potential would be to put them in a bigger room. 

I'm not convinced that is the issue. Mine are in a 19 X 13 room and sound tremendous. It took some playing around to make it work. @Chris A might be able to help you with this.

[thebes]

12 hours ago, Coytee said:

 

Grasshopper, be careful what you ask for.  I don't pretend to know prices, but if they made them as a residential speaker, you know, all prettied up with a lot of lipstick....  they could be a lot more expensive.  As it is now, they're taking a cinema speaker, slapping the lipstick on with maybe a hula skirt...

They look like a bargain until you go to buy the recommended active xover which is well over $1 k, then, of course, you must simply have the TAD drivers, which are what $2k?

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

[RSVRMAN]

42 minutes ago, thebes said:

They look like a bargain until you go to buy the recommended active xover which is well over $1 k, then, of course, you must simply have the TAD drivers, which are what $2k?

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Well, I would hope they would market them and not change pricing, but Coyotee is probably right and there would be a markup. Maybe at least have the 2 way version info available on their website. 

 

I got my DC-One new for $600, (Used DX-38's can be found for almost 1/2 that) D75a amps were mint for $100 each. They also come with the K691, they aren't TAD's but should be an improvement over the K69. Now, I'm hopeful to find TAD's and they are becoming hard to find, from the owners list, it appears a lot of users don't use them. I don't think its the cost that scares people away, but its a combination of the additional complexity (active) in addition to the lack of knowledge about how to get them working. 

 

[Coytee]

7 hours ago, thebes said:

you must simply have the TAD drivers

 

"not really"

 

The 2-way Juiblee as delivered by Klipsch is an outstanding speaker.

 

The TAD is a better driver but I'd say it's similar to a car.  (I'm going to talk about Mustangs and honestly, don't know the first thing about them)

 

You can buy a stock Mustang.  Great for every day living.

You can buy a hopped up (but still stock since it came from the dealer) mustang that will smoke the tires

 

Is it required to buy the hopped up version with the larger engine & 700 HP?  Nope.  Is it a better performer than the first version?  Yep

 

Does everyone need the hopped up version?  Nope

 

The first version will get you a speeding ticket just as easy....or wrap itself around a tree just as easy.  Heck, it might actually save you some money in the tire-replacement world...

 

Besides, all those TAD guys are snobs...

 

 

[garyrc]

On 1/25/2017 at 0:16 PM, AaronB123 said:

Ya, they are only 7 feet to be exact and another thing I really like as I said is the Jubilee's don't require corner placement. I hadn't heard that the Jubilee's sound better in smaller rooms but it makes sense since they don't require corners. 

 

Klipsch recommends a ceiling 8.5 feet high or higher for the Khorns.  Heyser's review in Audio recommended a high ceiling and a thick rug.  I think Heyser said the problem was the tweeter reflection hitting a low ceiling and the reflection arriving at your ears too soon.  He gave the Khorn a frank, but basically positive review, as have others.  I love mine.  If you keep the Khorns, try some absorbing material on your 7 foot ceiling where the first reflection points are (but nowhere else on the ceiling).  Search for Chris A's thread on Corner Horn Acoustics in this forum.

 

As for the La Scalas providing the in your face sound you love, sometimes the La Scalas are criticized for being too "in your face."   I've heard them both too shrill and very natural and well balanced.  Although it shouldn't make as much difference with La Scalas (because they are short) the place I liked them the best had a high ceiling.  The place I liked La Scalas the least was in an art house, in which they were raised up off the floor, on either side of the screen, and therefore, close to the ceiling. 

 

I don't recall where you sit, but if you sit where you can look down the throat of both tweeters, the Khorns might take on a little more of an "in your face" quality. 

 

 

[DrWho]

You can always add "false walls" to the khorn....or basically build a room corner for them to sit in so that the flare of the bass bin is finished without using your room's corners. And then you can place them anywhere in the room.

 

If you're going to pull the khorn out without the false corner thing, then you should just get the lascala since it sounds better in that configuration. Just make sure you get a potent subwoofer to make up for that bottom 1.5 octaves you're missing.

 

 

Or just get the Jubilee - getting a passive xover made for you is easy if you don't wanna deal with the active route.