Bass driver question

[uams]

Hi folks,

As is my understanding a replacement bass driver for older Klipschorn, LaScala, and Belle's that is closely spec'd to the K33(E) driver is the Eminence/Crites CW1526(C), and some also use the Eminence Kappa 15C with success here.

 

(and now to the questions)

But what about the current builds of Klipschhorn and LaScala (the Belle is now "extinct") - what bass driver are they using? Are they using a 3rd driver that is neither the CW1526(C) or Kappa 15C? Or are they simply using a, say, stamp chassis CW1526 from Crites, albeit with a 'Klipsch' logo on the back of the magnet? If they are using a 3rd driver, then I'd wonder why that particular driver isn't used as a replacement driver for the older models, unless of course there have been made modifications to the bass horns of the current models that necessitates differently spec'd bass drivers.  

Furthermore, from what I'm able to assess, the Crites CW1526 is closely spec'd compared to the old, square magnet K33E (more so than the newer, round magnet K33), but not similarly, so I gather, doesn't it sound slightly different? Of the ones here that have actually made the shift from the K33(E) to the CW1526, can you report back on any sonic differences?

Lastly, according to Eminence's homepage the Kappa 15C is rated at 450/900 watts (RMS/Program), whereas the Crites CW1526 is rated at 75/150 watts (RMS deduced from the 150 watt "Pmax" rating, which should see the RMS value effectively half of that) - a rather substantial power rating difference. What accounts for this? The Kappa 15C uses a 3" voice coil and the CW1526 a 2" voice coil, so that would explain some of the difference in power capability, but still.

Edited January 27, 2017 by uams

[jason str]

They all sound a bit different but i do not recall ever hearing the Crites stamped frame version.

 

If you are not using a subwoofer the stock K-33 or Crites drivers are probably for you, if using a good subwoofer the Eminence Kappa 15 C has the advantage with a better midrange detail.

 

Power ratings for home use makes little difference, anything over 20 watts (or less) in the average room will leave you with ringing ears with these efficient horn loaded models.

[uams]

Deleted

Edited January 26, 2017 by uams

[uams]

2 hours ago, jason str said:

They all sound a bit different but i do not recall ever hearing the Crites stamped frame version.

 

If you are not using a subwoofer the stock K-33 or Crites drivers are probably for you, if using a good subwoofer the Eminence Kappa 15 C has the advantage with a better midrange detail.

 

Power ratings for home use makes little difference, anything over 20 watts (or less) in the average room will leave you with ringing ears with these efficient horn loaded models.

Thanks for responding.

 

The Crites CW1526C cast frame is actually used in my own speakers, which are a pair of these:

http://simonmearsaudio.com/uccello-horn-loudspeakers.html

 

My question was of general interest, and to hear what others thought of the differences. Perhaps you can elaborate on your own impressions? With the Uccello's the Kappa 15C was optional, however we decided on the CW1526C.

 

Indeed, I can see power ratings above what you specify, with these speaker models, is largely "academic," but my question was to go after a technical explanation. Thanks nonetheless for your observations here.

Edited January 26, 2017 by uams

[jason str]

Higher power handling only means the voice coil less is susceptible to overheating, the actual power you can throw at them mostly depends on crossover point, crossover slope and driver  X-max. If you run them full range you run out of X-max and damage the driver before anything.

[uams]

20 hours ago, jason str said:

Higher power handling only means the voice coil less is susceptible to overheating, the actual power you can throw at them mostly depends on crossover point, crossover slope and driver  X-max. If you run them full range you run out of X-max and damage the driver before anything.

 

My question here relates to the context of the bass drivers used in specific speaker models - namely K-horn, and LaScala/Belle - and so they are used under the same circumstances and filter topologies. Even so one must assume the power rating of the CW1526(C) and Kappa 15C are drawn from the same measuring criteria (being that both drivers are made by Eminence) - that is to say again: we have a rather substantial difference in power rating between named drivers by factor 6 (!), which I find surprising - to the point even where you might expect the measuring criteria are not similar, or else naturally there's some technicalities about the drivers that explains it, which I wanted to know if anybody here knew about.  

 

Still, is it known which bass drivers are used in the current K-horn and LaScala's? By the look of it, judging by some images from recent K-horn reviews, the (stamped) chassis doesn't resemble that of the Crites unit, but rather looks consistent with the K33 units (from Eminence?) I've seen from earlier (i.e.: post-K33E) LaScala and K-horns.  

 

Perhaps my confusion stems from the fact, that the Crites drivers are more or less "replicas" of the older, square magnet K33E's, which must have been used in the old bass horns (perhaps pre mid- to late-80's?) with horn/throat geometries that vary slightly compared to their younger brethren. If this is so, then the question could be furthered if there's any sonic difference/preference between the older horns with the square magnet K33E, and the newer ones with the round magnet K33?

Edited January 27, 2017 by uams

[jason str]

1 hour ago, uams said:

 

My question here relates to the context of the bass drivers used in specific speaker models - namely K-horn, and LaScala/Belle - and so they are used under the same circumstances and filter topologies. Even so one must assume the power rating of the CW1526(C) and Kappa 15C are drawn from the same measuring criteria (being that both drivers are made by Eminence) - that is to say again: we have a rather substantial difference in power rating between named drivers by factor 6 (!), which I find surprising - to the point even where you might expect the measuring criteria are not similar, or else naturally there's some technicalities about the drivers that explains it, which I wanted to know if anybody here knew about.  

 

Still, is it known which bass drivers are used in the current K-horn and LaScala's? By the look of it, judging by some images from recent K-horn reviews, the (stamped) chassis doesn't resemble that of the Crites unit, but rather looks consistent with the K33 units (from Eminence?) I've seen from earlier (i.e.: post-K33E) LaScala and K-horns.  

 

Perhaps my confusion stems from the fact, that the Crites drivers are more or less "replicas" of the older, square magnet K33E's, which must have been used in the old bass horns (perhaps pre mid- to late-80's?) with horn/throat geometries that vary slightly compared to their younger brethren. If this is so, then the question could be furthered if there's any sonic difference/preference between the older horns with the square magnet K33E, and the newer ones with the round magnet K33?

 

If you do a search i think all of these drivers have been tested at one time along with T/S parameter information with the exception of the current K-33.

 

 

[Marvel]

Yes, for a long time now the K33 has been made by Eminence. They emailed me the t/s parameters a few years ago and they have been posted before. My LS have only had originals, and the empty cabs I got are being fitted with K33 woofers (new from Klipsch, but I've had them in a box for a few years)

 

Bruce

 

[SiliconTi]

According to the Klipsch site, they both use a K-33-E in the newest versions.

 

The K-33's I just ordered from Klipsch are round magnet and seems to be Eminence units.

[geoff.]

I don't know if this wil help, but I seem to recall reading on this forum that Bob Crites had done some testing of the K-33-E square  and K-33-E round magnet versions.

 

The only notable difference was the square magnet version went lower in a tuned enclosure. If I recall correctly.

 

I have owned two pairs '84 Cornwall 1's (the last year for that style,) actually still do, one pair came stock with the square magnet K-33-E and the other pair, the round magnet version identical to the ones in my treasured '86 Cornwall 2's.

 

I am dabbling with a 2-way Cornscala/"The Fifteens" (lol) and chose to use the square magnet woofers for this very reason.

 

This forum and it's members have your answers. Somewhere...

 

 

[mike stehr]

Factor over time a speaker cone or spider drying/stiffing up, a little looser mechanical compliance from use, and the Fs can vary a bit between drivers.

[JohnA]

Still using the K-33-E.

 

One woofer is designed to absorb 900 watts and the other is not.  I don't understand the question.