What Are Used Heritage Speakers So Inexpensive?

[SiliconTi]

You know, it occurs to me that used Heritage (or even the RF-7 series)  speakers do not really hold their value. Why is that? Why is the pair of La Scalas I have that cost $6,000 new now only "worth" $1000 or less? It is not like they do not still sound like new, or are "out of style" (well, OK, the IIs are beautiful).

 

This seems to hold for most premium items - cars, boats, high end audio, etc.

 

The knee-jerk reaction is that they are not really worth the original price and used prices reflect the "real value". Not sure it is that simple.

 

Thoughts?

[JL Sargent]

Once you buy something, it's a used item. Most items depreciate over time and with use. Same holds true for about any speaker. Depreciation plays a big part in all this. Newer models come out with better technology and better specifications making your used older tech speakers worth less. Therefor the "real value" of something CHANGES over time.

 

[willland]

2 minutes ago, SiliconTi said:

You, it occurs to me that used Heritage (or even the RF-7 series)  speakers do not really hold their value. Why is that? Why is the pair of La Scalas I have that cost $6,000 new now only "worth" $1000 or less? It is not like they do not still sound like new, or are "out of style" (well, OK, the IIs are beautiful).

 

The $6000.00 price is for new today LaScala II's.

 

You need to look at how much they were when new back in 70's, 80"s, etc.

 

RF-7's were first mfr'd and sold 15 or so years ago and probably cost upwards of $2000.00.  Many today can sell at $1000.00 if in great shape.

 

Bill

[BlueHusky79]

Not sure what your comparing prices to. As you don't say which LaScala you have. I believe much depends on how the speakers are marketed. Example, condition of speakers, complete set of pictures and where your advertising them. Especially when you compare to "New" prices.

My own experience, I bought a pair of Klipsch's, pampered by keeping clean as well as oiling the wood finish. Paid in 1990 $1,000; today I have had offers in the $1,000 range for 27 year old speakers.

Note, have seen folks offer for sale speakers covered with dust in pictures. Comment by seller, gorgeous speakers, need to be cleaned and polished, sound awesome. Asking Max price.

Buyers assume an issue, and will offer less $, as they believe that they are not pristine. Even though just dusty.

Hope I help you, which was my intention. Best of luck. Jeff

[richieb]

If memory serves and at my age its becoming further away every day, in 1977 I paid $1400 for a new pair of factory fresh LaScallas. That's around $5500 today. So new LS are twice that but those numbers are only the currency/inflation/ cost of living conversion. One must figure the business cost of Klipsch today to produce the speakers. 

[derrickdj1]

I see a lot of other brands used speakers higher than Klipsch.  I always thought the Forte's, Chorus, and the  LaScala where reasonable for the  quality of what you are getting.

[scalawag]

I don't have any hard data to back up my opinion, but I would guess that the 'Scalas are a "niche" speaker due to size, design, specs, etc., and appeal only to a small segment of the audio community, or even amongst Klipsch aficionados themselves.  Kind of like how my old '90 FXR was to the general Harley crowd , and how my Fat Bob is today.  As such, "resale value" will be somewhat determined by the product's desirability or uniqueness as perceived by the buying public.

 

For me, I am still deeply enthralled with my '76 La Scalas, which back in the day cost me $525 ea here in the SF Bay Area, but are worth at least twice that to me now.  In any case, don't let the $$ numbers, whether good or bad, be a distraction to ownership - just enjoy them!

[HDBRbuilder]

Cost at time of purchase has lots to do with asking price when sellers are the original purchasers.  Other than that, prices sellers ask for something is a roll of the dice...and unfortunately for consumers, lots of the sellers just do a google search to determine asking prices when they really have no idea whatsoever what the equipment is actually worth.  It all boils down to ONE thing:  Something is only "worth" what someone is WILLING to pay for it.

 

Consider this:  When I worked at Klipsch, one year I bought a pair of really nice HWO Heresys...using the 40% of MRSP employee discount...and left them boxed up for a year until I met the ownership time requirement to re-sell them.  I paid a bit over 300 bucks for the pair.  One of my diving instructors had mentioned he would like some Klipsch speakers, and he had his little home scuba equipment business going...so we swung a deal for a swap...this was around 1979 or 1980.  He got a nice pair of "new" Heresys (which he was ecstatic about!), and I walked away with a Dacor buoyancy compensating jacket, a Dacor aluminum 80 cubic foot tank, Dacor pacer regulator, with Dacor two instrument console attached (pressure guage and depth guage), Dacor  tank backpack unit, rechargeable Dacor dive light, Chronosport Sea Quartz 30 dive watch, and a two-rubber speargun...all brand-new top of the line stuff (at the time)!  What I ended up with was worth WAY MORE than what I traded for it...about a 4.5:1 ratio on MY side of the deal!  We were BOTH happy, and that's what counted (but I was DEFINITELY MORE happy than he was, even though I didn't let him know it!).

 

Wanna make me a deal??  I didn't think so...LOL!

[willland]

25 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

I walked away with a Dacor buoyancy compensating jacket, a Dacor aluminum 80 cubic foot tank, Dacor pacer regulator,

There is about $800.00 worth(at that time) of gear for just those three pieces.

 

You walked away with the motherlode.

 

Been a long while since I bought scuba gear but probably paid near that for Sherwood gear in 1987.

 

Bill

[HDBRbuilder]

1 hour ago, willland said:

There is about $800.00 worth(at that time) of gear for just those three pieces.

 

You walked away with the motherlode.

 

Been a long while since I bought scuba gear but probably paid near that for Sherwood gear in 1987.

 

Bill

That Chronosport dive-watch retailed for around 400 bucks, the spear-gun was around 175 bucks, rechargeable Dacor divelight was around 120 bucks retail...backpack around 65 bucks, and console unit with pressure guage and depth guage around 175 bucks...BUT...I told him to go down and price a pair of HWO Heresys at the Klipsch dealer in Texarkana...and we swapped what they told him he would have to pay for what he had the equipment marked for in his shop...I still came out a bit ahead even then, since his Heresys were MUCH nicer than what he saw at the dealership...his wife about died when they were  unboxed and she saw them...he called them his "anniversary present" to her...LOL!

 

Funny...but still have the watch, and because watch collectors KNOW that was the EXACT model worn by Tom Selleck on Magnum P.I., and mine is in excellent condition, it is worth MUCH more than what its list price was when I got it...even though it is a QUARTZ watch (usually automatics used in famous movies/TV shows are what skyrocket in value to the collector market)!  I collect older dive watches (the vast majority of which are automatics)...so very familiar with what has caused some that I got "for a song" to have been driven to skyrocket up in value over the last decade or so.

[willland]

54 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

I collect older dive watches (the vast majority of which are automatics)...

Any Heur's(not TAGHeur)?

 

Bill

[Chris A]

40 minutes ago, SiliconTi said:

...It occurs to me that used Heritage (or even the RF-7 series)  speakers do not really hold their value. Why is that? Why is the pair of La Scalas I have that cost $6,000 new now only "worth" $1000 or less? It is not like they do not still sound like new, or are "out of style" (well, OK, the IIs are beautiful).

 

This seems to hold for most premium items - cars, boats, high end audio, etc.

 

The knee-jerk reaction is that they are not really worth the original price and used prices reflect the "real value". Not sure it is that simple.

 

Thoughts?

 

1) When the life of a product is very short, it depreciates significantly when you take possession of it (i.e., the moment it's yours).  Personal computers are like this.

 

2) When the life of a product is very long, undifferentiated products vs. time tend to depreciate to the long-term used value (i.e., one price for all yearly models).  Klipsch Heritage are pretty much the gold standard for products with infinite life and basically undifferentiated performance vs. time.  So the used Heritage marketplace have settled resale prices that seem to be stable with market demand, and that price is neither too low or too high. 

 

There are a lot of loudspeaker models that depreciate much more dramatically and lose practically all their value.  Other models (i.e., "expensive, high performance" models such as old JBL Hartsfields and Paragons, and the extremely large cinema Altecs like the "A" series, and Western Electric horns/drivers) become collectors items and then command a premium price.  Used Belles usually reflect the price premium that they had when new: they were never as inexpensive as La Scalas.

 

Loudspeakers that have been "improved" (upgrades, etc.) usually don't retain the value of the upgrades (sort of like swimming pools in backyards), while other gear, such as used amplifiers that have been serviced (McIntosh, etc.) tend to appreciate in value vs. time.  It's like collecting stamps.  Buy expensive and hold, and sell for more later on.

 

Loudspeakers with a lower original price (like the Reference Series), basically are following the percentage price drops of the used Heritage. 

 

If you want to make money on collecting and selling, then you need to buy and hold...but very carefully select the right brands/models, and then not allowing any wear and tear on the units.  Again, this is sort of like stamp or coin collecting. 

 

Personally, this collecting thing isn't really my cup of tea.

 

Chris

[Max2]

I think its pretty simple. Depreciation works off of a percentage and liked mentioned above, the "odder" the ball or less practical, the smaller the market.  When you buy a used Heritage speaker you will likely never lose money, and possibly make some in years to come, very similar to McIntosh hardware. 

 

You buy a 100K car, you lose 10-15K when you drive it off the lot, the same with boats.

I thinks its a great thing that my $900 Indy La Scalas are almost 30 years old and they may have appreciated $100 in my 20ish years of ownership.

However, my modded K-horns that I have more invested in networks, drivers and mid horns than I do the speakers themselves I will never recoup, but I do like the sound.

[SiliconTi]

58 minutes ago, Max2 said:

Depreciation works off of a percentage

 

I thought of this today - which is at the core of the question. In reality, everything depreciates at x%/year depending on the item. Th more expensive the item, the larger/faster the depreciation.

 

I ti also an excellent point that when my LS were new, they cost something like $600 each, so, the reality is that at $1200, they stayed the same (were "free").

 

Good info, thanks all. My original post was not thought out very well.

[HDBRbuilder]

3 hours ago, willland said:

Any Heur's(not TAGHeur)?

 

Bill

No....I go more for watches that use movements of their OWN design...I also don't have (or want) any Rolexes.  My favorite collectible dive watches are from Aquastar, Jenny, Aquadive, Wyler, Alsta (Alstater) Nautoscaph (which is what was worn by the Indianapolis survivor boat captain/shark hunter in the original Jaws movie and is pressure tested to 30 ATM), etc.  Most of my collection is PRE-1970 automatics, with the majority of them pre-1965...and quite a few from the 1950's...and prefer those cased for 20 ATM, 30 ATM and even much deeper pressure-tested.  I also have a collection of LADIES dive watches for my wife...same parameters.

 

It was cool to see Bulova release reproductions (but with quartz movements) of their inner bezeled twin-stemmed dive watches (from the late 1960's to early 1970's), which were originally loaded with accutron or automatic movements.  I have a few of the originals...and I highly prize my sub-collection of inner bezeled dive watches...both mens and ladies...which were the "cat's meow" prior to the introduction of the one-way click-stop outer timing bezels on dive watches.

[Hasty]

I think a big factor in the drop in value are issues related to actually moving them.  You're probably going to need a buddy to help carry them, a truck, and spend a day on the road, loading, unloading, etc, and you're unlikely to spend thousands unless it's exactly what you want and that's usually not something you're going to find nearby.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to buy used Klipsch, but it's certainly a lot easier, (yet more expensive) to click "buy" and have brand-new, perfect condition gear, delivered to your doorstep and avoid beat up veneer, water stains from the old wife's flower pots,  busted drivers, worn out crossovers, and designs that may have been improved in a newer model.   

 

I don't think you're going to go wrong either way though.  New and used Klipsch have their benefits.   

 

 

[garyrc]

I believe Klipschorns (walnut) cost $1,450 each in 1980.  If someone had a "perfect" pair purchased then, and sold them for 25% of the current purchase price ($5,999, new -- more with sales tax), i.e., $1,500 each, one might say that they had appreciated.  I don't happen to know the going used price for pristine 1980 Khorns, but 25% of new seems right to me. 

[Ceptorman]

The msrp price reflects about a 50% markup from the factory. If you can find a dealer that wants to move inventory and make less profit, you're starting off much better than the guy that paid full price. There was a thread on here a while back, where a person was selling a center channel speaker for more than the current sales price for a new one. 

[Seadog]

I paid $550 for a pair of KG4's in 1985.  They are probably worth $300 on the used market today.  That same $550 in my 401K is probably worth $2600 today (assuming 5% annual rate of return).  If I could go back in time, I would still buy the speakers.

[Schu]

Inexpensive is a relative term OP... I only shop value myself because I DON'T have an unlimited budget. But I do have La Scala II'S for about 1500$.