RSVRMAN Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Pictures may help. This is a one story rambler and I'm currently renting so I'm limited. I love the idea of a table tuba and was thinking that, but since this is our only room that is open in the house the area in the center must remain open. "Kids play area." Looking at the picture I have an opening to the kitchen that can't be blocked as well as the one walkway to the bedrooms in back. I also have a glass sliding door that goes to the patio. I would love to have two horn loaded subwoofers, however putting them behind the jubilees would kick the left one into the walkway into the kitchen or moving the couch forward and putting one in front of the TV limits more floor space. This is only temporary until we buy/build a new home, so if I do go down this route having one sub would be better than none. I'm figuring on about 3 different options for placement. This would all be dependent on where it sounds good. I would prefer option 1 first to ensure imaging between the jubes is as good as it can get, then option 2 and 3. Hope this helps clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, DrWho said: I have always been a proponent of audio purchases aligning with long-term goals. If you want to go the IB route in the future, then perhaps you might consider investing in the IB drivers now, and installing them in a slightly different cabinet alignment. That can be hard with the IB drivers, but would be something worth investigating I think. Plenty of guys on the AVS forum to help hash out the details. What kind of amplifier will you be running for the sub? I an agree with making long term goals, hence the jubilee purchase. Right now I'm renting, so mounting them in the ceiling/walls is a no go. I haven't picked an amp yet, which will depend on what or if I choose a sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, DrWho said: There is no science in the world backing up this aversion to direct radiating bass...especially for a narrow bandwidth subwoofer. I wouldn't do it with Jubs. I guess my experience owning them for nine years doesn't count... 4 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said: Pictures may help... You do realize that the Jub on the left will stick out one foot into the walkway to the kitchen when toed-in properly. I'd recommend the combination of options 1 and 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Chris A said: You do realize that the Jub on the left will stick out one foot into the walkway to the kitchen when toed-in properly. I'd recommend the combination of options 1 and 2. Yup, was aware before my purchase. Not my design choice for a house....... Will be done 100% right in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Looking at the drawing, he is limited with his options. This this will be temporary for a year or two, build horn sub small enough to hit some high spl and get to around 20 Hz. This way the sub can go to the new home in the future and fill a niche. A couple of Buttkick LFE's for the ends of the couch and call it a day. His problem is that he does not know where the sub needs to be which is different than where you want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 A DIY SPUD today would cost about $300(US) in drivers, plywood, and fasteners. It's 11 inches thick. In my room, I tried the SPUDs under and to the side of the Jubs. I found that pushing the Jubs into the room 11 inches and providing a false corner backstop behind them actually improved their performance (15.5' width room). Under the Jubs - the K-402s were way too high, to the sides of the Jubs then the spacing between the Jubs was too narrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said: Pictures may help. This is a one story rambler and I'm currently renting so I'm limited. I love the idea of a table tuba and was thinking that, but since this is our only room that is open in the house the area in the center must remain open. "Kids play area." Looking at the picture I have an opening to the kitchen that can't be blocked as well as the one walkway to the bedrooms in back. I also have a glass sliding door that goes to the patio. I would love to have two horn loaded subwoofers, however putting them behind the jubilees would kick the left one into the walkway into the kitchen or moving the couch forward and putting one in front of the TV limits more floor space. This is only temporary until we buy/build a new home, so if I do go down this route having one sub would be better than none. I'm figuring on about 3 different options for placement. This would all be dependent on where it sounds good. I would prefer option 1 first to ensure imaging between the jubes is as good as it can get, then option 2 and 3. Hope this helps clarify. Table Tuba is not the best choice here, the THT is a different design and the better choice here if you were to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Chris A said: A DIY SPUD today would cost about $300(US) in drivers, plywood, and fasteners. It's 11 inches thick. In my room, I tried the SPUDs under and to the side of the Jubs. I found that pushing the Jubs into the room 11 inches and providing a false corner backstop behind them actually improved their performance (15.5' width room). Under the Jubs - the K-402s were way too high, to the sides of the Jubs then the spacing between the Jubs was too narrow. I like this ideal. Not to wide and plenty of grunts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 If you post your location maybe a forum member with the model subwoofer you were interested in could have you over to make a better educated decision, my door is always open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 50 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said: I an agree with making long term goals, hence the jubilee purchase. Right now I'm renting, so mounting them in the ceiling/walls is a no go. I haven't picked an amp yet, which will depend on what or if I choose a sub. Just to clarify, I was recommending to purchase the IB drivers, but don't install them in the walls or ceiling. You can put them in a classic speaker cabinet of your choice. Start with the drivers and then figure out which cabinet alignment meets your current needs best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 If so inclined doorways, openings, walls can always be adjusted to fit what needs to be. The biggest obstruction would be the header(s) if it was a load bearing wall. If you have the will (and some cash) anything can be accomplished with the space you already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson's Ridge Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Chris A said: Direct radiating drivers must move about 5X as far for the same on-axis SPL than compared to those same drivers used with horn loading. That translates into much, much higher modulation distortion. How much more? About 20-25 dB (SPL) more. It's the modulation distortion that sounds bad, not harmonic distortion. Chris, from where are these measurements derived? There are some very high quality direct-radiating subwoofers in the market place, would they suffer to the same extent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 From this source: https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=96455 2 hours ago, Dawson's Ridge said: would they suffer to the same extent? Yes. This is the principle on which PWK build his Khorn and his company. Horn loading is preferable wherever possible--and direct radiators are used only as an expediency to horn-loading. The Heresy and then Cornwall were developed to be center channel loudspeakers between two Khorns. Historically speaking--they both failed in that task. See: https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=80871 Modulation distortion was too high. The La Scala and later the Belle were developed as successful center channels. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Not to go too far off track but the Heresy and Cornwall are not bad speakers in their own right but next to a fully horn loaded system of any kind its easy to hear the short comings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 9 hours ago, jason str said: If you post your location maybe a forum member with the model subwoofer you were interested in could have you over to make a better educated decision, my door is always open. San Francisco. Is there really much of a difference in sound between horn loaded subwoofer designs? 9 hours ago, DrWho said: Just to clarify, I was recommending to purchase the IB drivers, but don't install them in the walls or ceiling. You can put them in a classic speaker cabinet of your choice. Start with the drivers and then figure out which cabinet alignment meets your current needs best. That is a very good idea and a cost savings at that. I think I will always have use for the horn sub, garage or even put it on a cart to play outside. When we do build I can imagine how much further drivers will come in another few years and I will go all out at that point and can spec the right ones for the room at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Rereading, even if the subwoofer isn't placed in the most ideal spot, I feel one will be overkill for the amount of sub I will need in that room. I can always turn it up a few dbs if it's not performing as I need and all seem to have more than enough power Id need. Also the couch reclines. Since I'm traveling I don't have any pictures with me. That could be good and bad. Good that it will recline over the top of something like the THT Long or bad that I need to pull the couch out further and option 3 would be the choice which I'm guessing then I'd lean towards the little wrecker since the mouth is a side exit. Currently though I'm probably more interested in which one is actually better since they are near identical in size. I think ideally I'd love to have a 8" wide quarter pie under the jubes as to not elevate them too high. Sadly I haven't seen a design that can hit the lower hz I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 48 minutes ago, RSVRMAN said: San Francisco. Is there really much of a difference in sound between horn loaded subwoofer designs? I have done some experimenting with various drivers and different models, none of them were poor sounding in any way but different from one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Does bill have any sweeps for the tuba ht that go from 10hz on? Only have found the 20hz and appears to drop quite quickly and can't tell from the lower end. This is the one I've found from lilwrecker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Don't judge by charts as everything will be room dependent and differ from 1/2 space graphs once installed. You will need to EQ to get the most out of either model. http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23258&start=30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVRMAN Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Is there any other that goes lower that is the same size other than the THT or the lilwrecker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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