Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
KenazFilan

Crites Titanium Tweeter diaphragms -- the Upgrade Saga Continues

Recommended Posts

After the self-inflicted difficulties with installing my Crites crossovers, I was a little hesitant about tackling the titanium diaphragms. But the instructions on Bob's website were pretty clear and I have a multimeter handy to test the connection. Finally I took the plunge and I'm glad I did -- once I started it took around 15 minutes to replace both!  

 

I noticed a little extra clarity and a clearer soundstage after installing the crossovers.  The titanium diaphragms took the process to a whole new level: it is the aural equivalent of cleaning a dirty window.  Everything is brighter and sharper, not just the highs.  Cymbals sparkle and stand out: Freddie Hubbard's trumpet on 1970's Red Clay is so clear you can hear him hitting the spit valve.  The Ti upgrade definitely makes the speakers less forgiving: badly recorded material goes from tinny to nails on a blackboard as every bit of distortion is reproduced with painful fidelity.  But the glorious improvements on good recordings well worth $54/pair + shipping.  


I must admit that this has me wondering about titanium midrange diaphragms.  On another forum I saw Moray James commenting on how much Ti midranges improved his system and Klipsch's current Heritage lineup uses Ti midranges, but I'm not sure where I would purchase these.  (Critesspeakers.com also has a very helpful tutorial on changing the midranges on a Heresy, but I believe he only has phenolic midrange diaphragms).  But for now I'm simply going to bask in the glory of these improvements and give Bob Crites thanks once again for making my world a more musical place.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About 6 months ago I installed new crossovers and Ti tweeter diaphragms in a pair of Quartets I had purchased. In talking with Bob C. about the flat sound the speakers were producing he recommended the crossovers & Ti upgrade but when asked about the midrange, his advice was to leave them alone unless there was a need to replace them (i.e. blown coil). I followed his advice and am very pleased with the results.

 

That said, I would leave the mid's alone unless you are unhappy with the way they sound.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The phenolic mids that Crites offers are not meant to be an upgrade but simply a factory replacement. The Titanium Mids on the other hand get mixed reviews from what I understand and from what I've heard its about a 50 / 50 split on whether they are deemed an improvement or not. The people that like them really like them and those that don't, don't.

 

I have tried them in my Chorus II's and liked them at lower volumes but thought they got too hot at higher listening levels and eventually removed them. Admittedly, it was only at really high levels of output that did not sound good to me so if you listen at lower levels most of the time you may end up liking them. Also, the forte has a bit more laid back mid presentation than the Chorus so I suspect the TI mids may actually be better suited for your application.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an interesting bit of news concerning the mids as I just purchased a pair of Forte II's this past weekend. They sounded just fine as is so I have a bit of time before going the upgrade route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Osibisa said:

That's an interesting bit of news concerning the mids as I just purchased a pair of Forte II's this past weekend. They sounded just fine as is so I have a bit of time before going the upgrade route.

As a comment I have made in the past, I suggest anyone considering upgraded diaphragms listen to the character of the musical sound reproduction -- how accurate according to one's memory is the sound of instruments and voices, and how well do the various drivers blend and pull the sound together?  In a word, does it sound like music?  Ti is much sharper and more detailed, but might exaggerate the transients or might have a sharper transient response than other drivers in the speaker system.  That may make it harder to blend the drivers within each speaker system.  That seems to me to be one more thing to crank into your assessment.

 

I think Klipsch historically has been very good at producing well-integrated, well-blended musical sound throughout their speakers' ranges.

 

Another thing is to realize that a sharp increase in tweeter definition will increase the definition even in bass notes, because the overtones of even very low notes are sharpened up and made more audible.  It's up to you whether all these are characteristics that you want.  But I think it's a good idea to be aware of all of it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I continue listening to the Ti tweeters I am struck by just how unforgiving they can be.  Bruce Cockburn's "Golden Serpent Blues" (from an early CD pressing of High Winds White Sky) was one of my favorite Cockburn tunes despite the less than stellar recording.  On this system it sounds like it is being played through a cheap transistor radio and I can't get through one verse without my head starting to hurt.  Bill Evans Live at Art Lugoff's sounded so hollow and distorted I turned everything off and checked every connection in fear my McIntosh was going bad.  Then I played an SACD recording of Bill Evans Live at the Village Vanguard followed by Brian Wilson's Smile and they were astounding: I was particularly impressed with how well the Fortes handled Wilson's intricate vocal arrangements.   

 

My amp and DAC are both more about euphonious music than dead-accurate pinpoint precision: the MA6200 has that classic warm and friendly McIntosh sound and the tube stage in the DAC really does help give digital music an analog feel.  With the titanium tweeters the Fortes have the precision of studio monitors and the same propensity for bringing out a recording's warts.  When it works it is breathtaking: when it doesn't it's painful.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As your speakers improve as well as a recent room treatment addition, your crap recordings become more revealing and noticeable.  I have a couple of DVDA's and SACD's that I just cant listen to anymore. I also have some measly 128K files that can best a few lossless tracks I have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Record the discs to cassette. That should soften them up :-)

 

I am hoping I'm not in the same boat once the La Scalas come online.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an interesting assessment!

 

I have come and gone to that point and am back again.

 

I thought my Forte ii's with the titanium tweeter diaphragms were the be-all to end-all. At first.

 

Some of my CD's sounded like new material, in a very good way. Some sounded like new material, in a very bad way. All of them needing a little push in the volume department to bring them alive

 

I referred to them in my ad as "floor standing headphones" once I brought my FIRST pair of Cornwall's home.

 

Balance IS something Klipsch does well.

 

The trick is finding which one(s) of their line up has the "balance" YOU prefer.

 

The fellow I bought my Forte ii's from also had a pair of Belle's for sale. When I descended the stairs into his basement the music playing grabbed me in way I haven't heard since. Then he switched over to my Forte ii's. It was as if the life was gone. Believe it or not, the bass seemed louder from the Belle's. And the presence was un-surpassed.

 

But I had come for the Forte ii's and when I got them home I was not disappointed. I later found a pair of Quartet's and a KLF C7 I mused about making HT set-up with. But I am partial to 2 channel kit. Sold 'em all.

 

Cornwall's have a full balanced sound at quiet levels and beg to be turned up. That hooked me.

 

Fast forward a year and now a pair of Cornwall 2's, Cornwall 1's and Epic CF-3's take turns alternating "on stage."

 

I just built my first pair of Cornscala's which are somewhere between the Cornwall's and the CF-3's sound-wise. They are getting a run at present.

 

But the quest continues...

 

And the same gentleman I bought the Forte ii's from has his Belle's up for sale again! 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the ti tweeters do burn in and the louder you play them that faster this happens but you may also want to experiment with re positioning your speakers now that yu have new tweeter diaphragms in them. This may help if it does not help enough or at all you might also try listening to a different digital source just as a check. I can assure you that these tweeters can and do sound excellent when they are give the chance. I would suggest that you experiment with the power cord on your transport and once you find a good sounding one then experiment with different digital cables. After that move to the power cord on the DAC then preamp then amp in that order. You may find that this will make all the difference. Happy listening.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, moray james said:

I found the ti tweeters do burn in and the louder you play them that faster this happens but you may also want to experiment with re positioning your speakers now that yu have new tweeter diaphragms in them. This may help if it does not help enough or at all you might also try listening to a different digital source just as a check. I can assure you that these tweeters can and do sound excellent when they are give the chance. I would suggest that you experiment with the power cord on your transport and once you find a good sounding one then experiment with different digital cables. After that move to the power cord on the DAC then preamp then amp in that order. You may find that this will make all the difference. Happy listening.

My God Man, you have some kind of ears, im impressed. and im serious  :o

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found when I was disappointed with how my speakers sounded ...It is generally the source. Upgraded a pair of Chorus II's a while back ...thought the bass was lifeless...2 channel with out sub. Change from Integra 80.3 to Anthem AVM 60...couldn't believe how much low end I was missing.....same source Integra 80.3 different room...different set of Chorus II's which are completely stock.

Sounded the same bass was lifeless ...with out sub...Changed to 2 channel Yamaha MX amp / C-70 preamp...no longer need sub...Unbelievable difference... Conclusion..Integra 80.3 sucks for 2 channel listening.

 

 

George,

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

me too I am not kidding. Audio cables can make very real differences. I am not going to get into brands. I have heard very reasonable costing cable which sound good so you don't have to spend a tremendous amount.That said most of the really good cable is on the expensive side and that is understandable and to be expected I believe. I don't make recommendations because I design and build my own cables. You can if you are so inclined build your own cables and power cords. I suggest for interconnects a twisted quad of solid core 24 gage  these sound good. The quad configuration is the most quiet configuration that there is so always use a quad. For speaker cable a quad of 16 gage stranded works well and provided the dielectric is good at 300 or more volts rating you can also build a power cord with the same cable. That's all the free advice I am prepared to share.

   Back in 1988 I spent some time with David Salz then of Straight Wire then later of Wire World, he suggested that I start building analog interconnects with a parallel four wire flat cable configuration and experiment to see how many different configurations I could come up with build them all and listen. David was a friendly mentor. Try things like a coaxial digital cable and listen to it in both direction to see if you can rear the difference. Dielectrics sound different also that's something else you can experiment with. There is a reason why high performance wide band cables are polished and plated multiple times with metals like rhodium. Learning to listen to cable differences is not much different form learning to listen to differences in amplifiers or instruments for that matter. This is not something that most folks readily get into but I did and I am good at it so I like it but you don't have to have a set of golden ears to appreciate what good cables can do for a system. Good cables are a worthwhile investment of your effort and money. As you upgrade your system you can keep cables for a good length of time. Yes you may find that your components may have exceeded the capability of your cords and you may decide to upgrade at some point. Good cables can stay with you in your system for a lot of years so they can be a good value even if they were not inexpensive to buy when you started. 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, oldred said:

I found when I was disappointed with how my speakers sounded ...It is generally the source. Upgraded a pair of Chorus II's a while back ...thought the bass was lifeless...2 channel with out sub. Change from Integra 80.3 to Anthem AVM 60...couldn't believe how much low end I was missing.....same source Integra 80.3 different room...different set of Chorus II's which are completely stock.

Sounded the same bass was lifeless ...with out sub...Changed to 2 channel Yamaha MX amp / C-70 preamp...no longer need sub...Unbelievable difference... Conclusion..Integra 80.3 sucks for 2 channel listening.

 

 

George,

Many decades ago Linn used to tell folks something which is still true to this day. That is that the three most important things in your audio system are the source the source and the source. Clean power is also important and I recommend that people use the most filtering that they can on all the components in your home which generate noise. Halogen lamps compressors motors TV sets computers anything with a switching supply waterbed thermostats fridges/freezers. The list goes on, anything that make noise which will get onto your home grid and a filter will keep it out of or diminish its impact upon your stereo. Also make sure you have a quality ground in your home and here a wet ground(one with a drip system) is almost always going to sound better than a dry one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2017 at 11:19 AM, jjptkd said:

The phenolic mids that Crites offers are not meant to be an upgrade but simply a factory replacement. The Titanium Mids on the other hand get mixed reviews from what I understand and from what I've heard its about a 50 / 50 split on whether they are deemed an improvement or not. The people that like them really like them and those that don't, don't.

 

I have tried them in my Chorus II's and liked them at lower volumes but thought they got too hot at higher listening levels and eventually removed them. Admittedly, it was only at really high levels of output that did not sound good to me so if you listen at lower levels most of the time you may end up liking them. Also, the forte has a bit more laid back mid presentation than the Chorus so I suspect the TI mids may actually be better suited for your application.

 

YMMV but there are typically two camps, ones that like phenolic and ones that like Ti.  I haven't heard a Ti driver go low enough and sound natural.  Maybe someday but for now phenolic seems a very good choice for mids.  Haven't heard Be though and it may make me change my mind.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just installed a set of Crites tweeter diapraghms in my Quartets.  I have a few comments and questions.  It may be that I'm just not used to the new sound so I need to take that into consideration.

  • The new tweeters seem to have toned down the sound.  It's not as crisp as before.
  • Does changing the diapraghms and not changing the crossovers mess with the SQ?
  • There was a green wire and a black wire.  I figured the green to be the positive and hooked it to the positive terminals.

 

Do I need to change the crossovers since I changed out the tweeters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You definitely need to change that font color so it can be read easier. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just changed out the tweeter diaphragms on a pair of Quartets and will do the same on a pair of Fortes.  I'm curious.  How much difference does the tweeter change make compared to doing both the tweeter and crossovers.  The tweeters are around $65 but the crossovers are around $250.  So is it worth it?  How?  How much SQ am I losing by not doing the crossovers too?  Does leaving the old crossover in impact the change of the new tweeter?

 

Questions.  I know many or most do both but I'm wondering how good or bad is it to just do the tweeters.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would recommend having someone just replace the capacitors on your crossovers for a cheaper price. This should help with the sound. If the crossovers are fine, you can do the titanium tweeters without a problem. You don't need Crites crossovers for the tweeters to work, but you do need fully functional crossovers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...