jjptkd Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, ZEUS121996 said: OK, Happy meals all around. So you got thru to him and he changed his listing. How has that changed my life, your life or anyone else's? Who cares? BTW, you have to disagree with people who actually worked at the factory building speakers and others who have built some amazing speakers. Maybe you should take that into consideration. But that's just my opinion, everyone has one just like a holes Mark If someone tries to tell me an apple is the same as an orange I will disagree no matter who says it. What happened in this thread was a clear misunderstanding and it should be obvious just by reading it. I learned a lot about the Cornwall speakers from this thread because I was genuinely curious about the history, did some research and asked questions. When something isn't clear to me or someone says something that doesn't make sense I question it to gain further understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 So if you have questions and want answers, Why not ask @Chief bonehead? He would seem to have way more knowledge than most of us, you on the other hand seem to think you are superior to everyone on the thread because you own a Ref 7 series 7 HT. I'm happy for you. On the CWs with the horn in a linear formation, what makes you think the CW2s have better dispersion other than what you have read on the internet? Have you actually A/B the Verticals vs. the CW? (pick one)? laying them sideway or vertically, I have a hard time telling the difference, buy YOU, who probably hasn't heard all the possible CWs but formulate ( see I can use big words too) based on graphs and charts. Since you have such a keen ear, please show up at the Pilgrimage , I would love to hear how many times you are WRONG on what is MP3, Vinyl, and other formats. YOUR trying to gain knowledge is to force others to believe you, you aren't looking for knowledge but to impress others with your knowledge of audio gear. You don't impress me nor probably anyone else on the forum. But I'm sure you can find another subject to throw around what your knowledge is, you seem to know all. You should ask the bonehead if he needs an assistant, your skills are overwhelming. Problem is, you seem to think you know more than bonehead his job would be in jeopardy if you came onboard. Oh and I'm not impressed with you and many others will still not be impressed. Keep telling yourself how smart you are, just please do it in font of a mirror and spare us from the BS. I'm sure the person looking back at you will agree you are brilliant and people will eventually come to realize it best of luck getting a clue Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I'm satisfied to know there was a Chorus II first in 1959 (who knew?) that was the vertical Cornwall. Then the Cornwall which we call the Cornwall I. The Cornwall 1.5 was a transition into what we now call the Cornwall II. I think it adds to the general knowledge of Klipsch speakers, it's part of the history that is unique to this brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 hours ago, ZEUS121996 said: So if you have questions and want answers, Why not ask @Chief bonehead? He would seem to have way more knowledge than most of us, you on the other hand seem to think you are superior the everyone on the thread be cause you own a Ref 7 series 7 HT. I'm happy for you. On the CWs with the horn in a linear formation, what makes you think the CW2s have better dispersion other than what you have read on the internet? Have you actually A/B the Verticals vs. the CW? (pick one)? laying them sideway or vertically, I have a hard time telling the difference, buy YOU, who probably hasn't heard all the possible CWs but formulate ( see I can use big words too) based on graphs and charts. Since you have such a keen ear, please show up at the Pilgrimage , I would love to hear how many times you are WRONG on what is MPS, Vinyl, and other formats. YOUR trying to gain knowledge is to force others to believe you, you aren't looking for knowledge but to impress others with your knowledge of audio gear. You don't impress me nor probably anyone else on the forum. But I'm sure you can find another subject to throw around what your knowledge is, you seem to know all. You should ask the bonehead if he needs an assistant, your skills are overwhelming. Problem is, you seem to think you know more than bonehead his job would be in jeopardy if you came onboard. Oh and I'm not impressed with you and many others will still not be impressed. Keep telling yourself how smart you are, just please do it in font of a mirror and spare us from the BS. I'm sure the person looking back at you will agree you are brilliant and people will eventually come to realize it best of luck getting a clue Mark Feel better? First off, I hope that this is not the impression I give people here, I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else, that is just ridiculous. Seriously, what is the point of this forum? I'm not allowed to ask questions? I can't share my opinions or experiences? I've never claimed to know everything and certainly will not speak out about things I know nothing about or don't have first hand experience with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hi everybody! What's goin' on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 4 hours ago, jjptkd said: Feel better? First off, I hope that this is not the impression I give people here, I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else, that is just ridiculous. Seriously, what is the point of this forum? I'm not allowed to ask questions? I can't share my opinions or experiences? I've never claimed to know everything and certainly will not speak out about things I know nothing about or don't have first hand experience with. Please tell me of all the experience you have with the 5 or 6 versions of Cornwalls, particularly the original Cornwall 2, laying them down horizontally and playing them vertically. If all the drivers are in line wouldn't they have a different sound than a pair where the woofer and driver are offset? Would having the horn and the tweeter on the outsides have a different sound than having them on the inside? "I have to disagree with this. The original Cornwall II used the same drivers but the horns were mounted vertically so to get the same dispersion you'd have to lay them on their side. That is a huge difference." And your experience about that are based on? HDRBuilder who actually worked at the factory building these might have a better understanding, but again maybe not. I'm looking for all the questions you asked in this thread in your search for more knowledge, can you point them out to me please? Hey Jimbo, not much going on Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 0:49 PM, jjptkd said: The original with k-1000 mid horn 2) the newer original with the k-600 mid horn 3) The first "II" model with vertically mounted horns 4) The second "II" model with plastic horns 5) The all new "III" model with the k-701 Heresy mid horn While you are technically correct, the first octave is ignored in ALL the Cornwalls (relegated to subwoofage by true Audiophiles) while the 4+ Octaves or more have ALWAYS been generated by the identical box volume, port dimensions, and a K-33 driver from various driver makers to a similar specifications within the same tolerance band. Looking at the spectral response of most music, most of the fundamental sound of all Cornwalls comes from the WOOFER section, which encompasses most of the midrange POWER, relegating the next 2 1/2 octaves of fundamentals and harmonics to the midrange section, with the final 2 octaves or so of HARMONICS (and vocal sibilance) relegated to the tweeter. From the Heresy to the Jubilee, the more sound was removed from the woofer and placed in a larger midrange horn (the K-402 being the ulitmate), the further up the Klipsch product and sound excellence scale we moved up, in addition horn loading the K33 (Khorn, LaScala, Belle, MCM, etc.). The Cornwall was always a compromise design with a pleasant bass hump at 90 Hz..This made it a great choice for a "signature sound" for those who felt the LaScala/Belle bass too thin and the Khorn too expensive. Either way, you are splitting hairs in a REAL ROOM and there's not a dime's worth of difference between all of the Cornwalls when they are PROPERLY oriented with respect to their horn orientation in the cabinet. Hearing and MEASUREMENT would easily bear this out. The "dime's worth" of difference would easily be PEQ'd out by any modern DSP unit, so the difference would be further reduced to "pennies" in a real wold hearing test. This whole thread is much ado about next to nothing. Over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 On 2/12/2017 at 2:56 PM, HDBRbuilder said: CWO...or CWL...can't tell the finish from this pic. Whoever did the final assembly on this particular one was not the BEST at centering up the horn lenses before tightening down the screws, though! @HDBRbuilder Yeah, lots of work repairing these in the past. Some i have had to fill in all the holes and re-align the horn assembly. Why is it the vertical dimension cutout is usually pretty close but the horizontal is almost always short ? Not related to just the Cornwall but inquiring minds want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Never heard of a Cornwall 1.5, myself...is that a forum nomenclature invention for something, or what? Actually, the original Cornwall II which many people THINK was just the one with the "vertical" horn layout, ALSO included the NON-"vertical" Cornwall which eventually completely replaced it in production. As for the original "vertical" Cornwall II models, at first there were a FEW made by special request (which were NEVER called Cornwall II models), but the increasing number of requests for that lay-out format made the "powers that be" decide to just make them ALL that way (for a short time, it turned out!), but other changes went into effect at the same time, and the designation "Cornwall II" was given to the speaker...and retained when the "vertical" ones were put back on the "special request" side of things and the Cornwal II REGULAR production went back to the Non-"vertical" motorboard. Make sense? THEN, we just dropped the "II" part of things about the time the "decorator" designation was dropped for the birch Cornwalls...and they changed THAT build to have the "drop-in front" motorboard...and they were just plain "Cornwall" again. The fact that the LITERATURE which was sent out WITH the speakers still said "Cornwall II" on it was just to get rid of that literature while waiting on replacement literature with just "Cornwall" on it...and before that literature was all gone, the new LABELS used on the backs of the speakers began being used (which just said "Cornwall")....and it all boils down to : "It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference" For that entire EPISODE of weirdness that happened concerning "Cornwall II" nomenclature. Then, SOMEBODY decided to call a later version the "Cornwall II", and they had NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what kind of havoc that would cause, simply because they failed to see into the future and realize that a Klipsch forum would come along years later and freak out about things!! Not only THAT, but the powers that be STILL haven't learned from that lesson and are still doing this kind of thing: I give you the "Cornwall III" as clear evidence of the continuing insanity perpetrated on "audiophiles"!!! I rest my case for: "It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference".... Some people prefer to scratch their arze horizontally while others prefer to do it vertically...me? I scratch mine whichever way works best for the itch! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Seriously, thank you for the informative responses Claude and HDBRBuilder! Ok, so a couple of simple questions here, was the vertical horn model designed to be laid on its side? Does it matter which way the horns are positioned, horizontally or vertically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, ZEUS121996 said: Please tell me of all the experience you have with the 5 or 6 versions of Cornwalls, particularly the original Cornwall 2, laying them down horizontally and playing them vertically. If all the drivers are in line wouldn't they have a different sound than a pair where the woofer and driver are offset? Would having the horn and the tweeter on the outsides have a different sound than having them on the inside? "I have to disagree with this. The original Cornwall II used the same drivers but the horns were mounted vertically so to get the same dispersion you'd have to lay them on their side. That is a huge difference." And your experience about that are based on? HDRBuilder who actually worked at the factory building these might have a better understanding, but again maybe not. I'm looking for all the questions you asked in this thread in your search for more knowledge, can you point them out to me please? Hey Jimbo, not much going on Mark I don't owe you anything, in fact this is the last time I'll acknowledge any of your posts. Goodbye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 That's a relief! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 51 minutes ago, jjptkd said: Seriously, thank you for the informative responses Claude and HDBRBuilder! Ok, so a couple of simple questions here, was the vertical horn model designed to be laid on its side? Does it matter which way the horns are positioned, horizontally or vertically? The Cornwall was originally designed to be a SUPPLEMENTAL speaker to a K-horn, and at the time most people had MONAURAL systems...with a K-horn in a corner and a supplemental speaker added to the corner opposite it...or wherever...maybe in another room...who knows? As stereo came along and was popularized, people started using a pair of flanking K-horns, but many of them wanted a three-speaker stereo array...so they bought a Cornwall for the center channel. People ALSO bought the Cornwall in pairs for a stereo set-up. Many people had to play the WAF game to justify ANOTHER big wooden box in-between the other two big wooden boxes in the corners on the same wall. So, the "audiophile" in the house satisfied THAT argument with something like: "Honey, why don't we put that long table of yours between the K-horns and we can put the Cornwall on its side UNDER the table!...and you can even hide it with a tablecloth of some kind! I really WANT a three-speaker stereo system! PLEASE???? Pretty PREASE??" And Voila...the "vertical" Cornwall came about. THEN they wanted it with a RISER on the side! Then some of them like the sound BETTER on its side. Which probably led to only the "vertical" being in REGULAR production for a very short time. But keep in mind that the LaScala came out before this...and began to be used for a center channel, instead of the Cornwall....so the Cornwall single sales began to diminish in number. Then orders stopped coming in in large numbers...and they changed back to "horizontal" Cornwalls in REGULAR production, with "vertical" ones special order....most likely the REAL reason was that the Belle came out to cover the center channel thing...which dropped the single vertical Cornwall sales almost to NOTHING. I was building special order verticals of all types of Cornwall cabinet-styles as late as a few weeks before I left in 1983. Why? Who knows? They ordered it so they got what they ordered...and I am sure that it continued for a number of years after I left...it MAY even continue to some extent, today! The motorboard for them was a NON-ISSUE, because they would just cut it to size, I would go over to the wall and pull out the appropriate router jig, then clean it up and tighten it up, and rout the holes and build the cabinet up....with a note inside about the special order status...and wait for the sanding department to ask questions, as usual. You simply CANNOT assign a period of years to specific speaker types/motorboard types/etc....and then argue about it...it just WILL NOT WORK FOR KLIPSCH SPEAKERS! Graphs, spreadsheets and such just CANNOT be made ACCURATELY without the caveat being noted that special orders are special orders!...AND the label that went on them or the serial number assigned was whatever was being used for whatever was in production at the time it went through the plant! That's how it was..like it or not!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said: Some people prefer to scratch their arze horizontally while others prefer to do it vertically...me? I scratch mine whichever way works best for the itch! Now that is some funny stuff. I don't care who you are. Thumbs up!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 hours ago, jjptkd said: Seriously, thank you for the informative responses Claude and HDBRBuilder! Ok, so a couple of simple questions here, was the vertical horn model designed to be laid on its side? Does it matter which way the horns are positioned, horizontally or vertically? Ah, @jjptkd you actually decided to ask questions of people who have considerable knowledge. Good for you! "I have to disagree with this. The original Cornwall II used the same drivers but the horns were mounted vertically so to get the same dispersion you'd have to lay them on their side. That is a huge difference." " I've never claimed to know everything and certainly will not speak out about things I know nothing about or don't have first hand experience with." See, that wasn't so hard , now was it? Asking a couple simple questions from people who actually know. Too bad you can't acknowledge any of my posts anymore, or you could admit you were talking out of your arse All the best! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcarey13 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I have spoken to the seller on ebay quite a few times over the past week...Honestly, I think he's a good guy who tried his best to list it accurately based on other auctions. I think he just got hit by so many people everywhere(sounds like it might have been quite a few) that he got overwhelmed and maybe somewhat defensive. He's not a "regular seller" on eBay and I think this listing reaction just surprised him a little. Since I shared with him a little story on how I use to collect vintage drums and how picky that market was he shared his reasoning with pricing etc....Here's one of his messages to me.......I just want to put this out there because again...he just seems like a good guy that got overwhelmed. I truly appreciate this message. After getting dozens of "flame-o-grams" from others this is an oasis. FYI ... (not sure I mentioned this to you before) but I had no idea on how to price the speakers when I started out .... SO ... I checked the current listings that I saw for what appear to be the same speakers as mine (regardless of the name - I don't want to go into that rat hole again - but based on photos and serial numbers etc) that I could find and then listed my set at a discount to the lowest price I found. I thought that was a fair way to go about it. I'm not a professional eBay seller so my usual mode of operation is to try a listing at what I can divine to be a good starting point and then over iterations lower the price gradually until I find the fair one. I've sold maybe a dozen items total in my eBay experience and this has worked well enough. I have some really wonderful buyer comments and emails so I feel I was fair, honest, and of service. SIGH unfortunately in this case I don't see how I can iterate! I would normally have relisted at maybe 90% of the prior listing price (in this case maybe 1200) and try again. However I'm more or less certain the (I'll use a bad term) idiots that gave me so much grief this last week will certainly rejoice in how they forced me to see the light etc and so on. And, more disappointingly, start another barrage. SIGH. Anyway ... I enjoyed this last message VERY MUCH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, bcarey13 said: I have spoken to the seller on ebay quite a few times over the past week...Honestly, I think he's a good guy who tried his best to list it accurately based on other auctions. I think he just got hit by so many people everywhere(sounds like it might have been quite a few) that he got overwhelmed and maybe somewhat defensive. He's not a "regular seller" on eBay and I think this listing reaction just surprised him a little. Since I shared with him a little story on how I use to collect vintage drums and how picky that market was he shared his reasoning with pricing etc....Here's one of his messages to me.......I just want to put this out there because again...he just seems like a good guy that got overwhelmed. I truly appreciate this message. After getting dozens of "flame-o-grams" from others this is an oasis. FYI ... (not sure I mentioned this to you before) but I had no idea on how to price the speakers when I started out .... SO ... I checked the current listings that I saw for what appear to be the same speakers as mine (regardless of the name - I don't want to go into that rat hole again - but based on photos and serial numbers etc) that I could find and then listed my set at a discount to the lowest price I found. I thought that was a fair way to go about it. I'm not a professional eBay seller so my usual mode of operation is to try a listing at what I can divine to be a good starting point and then over iterations lower the price gradually until I find the fair one. I've sold maybe a dozen items total in my eBay experience and this has worked well enough. I have some really wonderful buyer comments and emails so I feel I was fair, honest, and of service. SIGH unfortunately in this case I don't see how I can iterate! I would normally have relisted at maybe 90% of the prior listing price (in this case maybe 1200) and try again. However I'm more or less certain the (I'll use a bad term) idiots that gave me so much grief this last week will certainly rejoice in how they forced me to see the light etc and so on. And, more disappointingly, start another barrage. SIGH. Anyway ... I enjoyed this last message VERY MUCH. Poor guy! Well it is what it is...BUT, if I was in his shoes (lucky that I wasn't!), and I perceived that it was not only one of the "badgers", but the CAPTAIN of the "badger team" who finally bought those Cornwalls...then I would REALLY HAVE TO REFRAIN from getting a few mice, or better yet, a GERBIL...and feed them/it until they/it were/was about to pop...then throw them/it into one of the cabinet port holes just before sealing up the boxes for shipment! What comes around goes around! I can just see myself on the phone after delivery..."You say a GERBIL?? In one (or BOTH) of the speakers?? And it pooped all over the inside of it?? Damn! We've been turning the whole house upside down for days trying to find my grandson's pet gerbil! Is Roscoe OK??" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, HDBRbuilder said: I can just see myself on the phone after delivery..."You say a GERBIL?? In one (or BOTH) of the speakers?? And it pooped all over the inside of it?? Damn! We've been turning the whole house upside down for days trying to find my grandson's pet gerbil! Is Roscoe OK??" Not only can you build Klipsch speakers, but you are comically entertaining as well. Nice posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Not only can you build Klipsch speakers, but you are comically entertaining as well. Nice posts. Claude, you best be careful, people are saying there are cliques in here. And I know you don't give a shit about what anyone thinks. BUT, you are starting to align with a clique (or is it click) HDBR is funny as hell tho. He's coming out of his shell, who knows what he's going to come out of his typing next, but it should be comical Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 15 hours ago, ZEUS121996 said: HDBR is funny as hell tho. Precisely my point. I just feel bad for the Ebay gentleman, but it looks like he has a great attitude, which is most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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