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Lascala amp requirements?

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Wondering what amps folks run with Lascala. Tube? solid state? Ive tried Krell KSA 100-S, Dynaco st-70, a d now VTL mb450 (maybe overkill).

  having difficulties finding quiet combo. My preamps are Krell Pam-3, Fisher 400cx, and CAT SL-1 Ultimate

   Not a fan of the rebuilt Dynaco, other than it was quiet. Was thinking about Quicksilver Horn Mono. Suppose to be real quiet, but 25 watts under powered? My lascalas have Al's xovers ap12 500 and 5800es. Fastrac mid lense, jbl driver.

  opinions on quiet amps for lascala welcome. i will check specs on my own for compatability with my preamps, just been burning brain cells looking for the right amps. Want mono blocks . Apologies if this is not correct place to post, please kindly redirect if so.

20170201_105106.jpg

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Welcome!

 

As to whether it would be under powered with 25 watts RMS:

 

How big is your room?

 

How close to the speakers do you sit?

 

How loud do you like it?  Live concert level?

 

With a stock La Scala, a real 25 watts RMS should give you more than 110 dB in a 3,000 cu. ft. room of average liveness from a typical listening position.  I'm not sure how that would translate, since you are using a JBL driver and  Fastrac mid lens.   I put 25 watts into my Klipschorns (same sensitivity as stock La Scala) once, and it was very loud, and shook the windows several rooms away.  But, La Scalas roll off below about 50 or 60 Hz (depending on room positioncorner placement produces the most bass).  If you boost the bass frequencies in an effort to make up for this, you will be "spending" watts.  It may be better to get a good subwoofer to go with your La Scalas, but then you will need a preamp with a subwoofer output, or consult an audio engineer, unless you are one.. 

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I have run HK 430 ...24watts     ST-70 ....35watts.    Both more than enough. I just got the Dynaco  was wondering what you did not like about it. I like it a lot it is dead quiet with no signal going into it. It has just been recapped and no mods.  Do you have the K-33 woofer that was in the bass bin ?

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Unless you have an auditorium sized room or run them outside you have plenty of power.

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Maybe placing your amp on top of your speaker has something to do with the quality, maybe not? I am not an engineer, but this doesn't sound like a good idea with tubes.   I run a Crown D45 in "vertical" by amped configuration.  There is a little bit of noise, however I am running a fairly large horn on top of it. 

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LaScala's don't need much power.  These are wonderful speakers and a prefect to build a 2 ch or surround system.  You did not like the Dynaco, play with the bias point and get those tubes to were you need them.  Usually there is a bias range of a certain tub on amp X.  Finding the sweet spot, considering everything else is correct and you will be in heaven.  You don't need different tubs or amps in most cases.

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I own QS horn monos and yes the 25 watt rating is more than sufficient overkill for LS or nearly any othe Klipsch speaker. And yes the amps themselves are very quiet but need a correspondingly quiet preamp to remain quiet at the horn. Most folks just don't understand the "push" good tube amps can furnish. My well implemented 2a3 2.5 watt mono blocks can also run you out of the room, a good size room at that.

You have a PM --

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9 hours ago, garyrc said:

Welcome!

 

As to whether it would be under powered with 25 watts RMS:

 

How big is your room?

 

How close to the speakers do you sit?

 

How loud do you like it?  Live concert level?

 

With a stock La Scala, a real 25 watts RMS should give you more than 110 dB in a 3,000 cu. ft. room of average liveness from a typical listening position.  I'm not sure how that would translate, since you are using a JBL driver and  Fastrac mid lens.   I put 25 watts into my Klipschorns (same sensitivity as stock La Scala) once, and it was very loud, and shook the windows several rooms away.  But, La Scalas roll off below about 50 or 60 Hz (depending on room positioncorner placement produces the most bass).  If you boost the bass frequencies in an effort to make up for this, you will be "spending" watts.  It may be better to get a good subwoofer to go with your La Scalas, but then you will need a preamp with a subwoofer output, or consult an audio engineer, unless you are one.. 

Thank you for the info. Room size is 300sq ft, and i sit about 6 feet away. Lascala are in corners, about 8 inches away from walls (necessity not a choice) xovers being a long ways away from stock, (alk engineering )  are a little less sensative than stock. 

  I run dual JL Audio Fathom 110 subs, so no need to boost bass with xovers or add any kind of mod to the cabs this way. I readjust bass as needed from my seated position .  I have steep slope xovers, and my understanding and belief after listening is the speakers come alive a bit with some wattage, but according to the bias lights on my Krell never more that 25-35 watts. (Not normal listening level but occasionally )  so, if im using 35 watts on occasion, a 35 watt amp would be exhausted at this time yes? No headroom left. I realize the woofer (k33) is efficiant, it is however a 15inch paper cone, so wont it need juice the power offers for speed?

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4 hours ago, wdecho said:

The big horns of any maker will play loud with most any amplifier out there. If not what use would the amplifier be if not for an efficient big horn. Make sense? As for noise, it depends on the designer and builder of the amp for the most part. I have 20 or more amplifiers both tube and SS and most of my tube builds are just as quiet as the best SS. Some have a touch of noise if you get real close to the speaker and are looking for noise but certainly not a nuisance from my listening chair. Be sure all your equipment is using the same wall AC outlet. All professional musicians are well aware of ground loops. An easy test is to ground the inputs of the power amp. There are special plugs for doing this but cutting a RCA cable in half and tying the wires together will work just a well. If your noise goes away it is not your amplifier but your pre. You can check it the same way and see then if it is your source. 

Thank you, yes! i did have ground issues for some time, and chased it down exactly as you describe. Small ammounts of hiss is acceptable. May i ask, (since you have so many amps) what is your favorite? Do you prefer solid state amp with Tube pre, or visa versa.

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7 hours ago, ricktate said:

I have run HK 430 ...24watts     ST-70 ....35watts.    Both more than enough. I just got the Dynaco  was wondering what you did not like about it. I like it a lot it is dead quiet with no signal going into it. It has just been recapped and no mods.  Do you have the K-33 woofer that was in the bass bin ?

The ST-70 was dead quiet indeed. Even with the CAT preamp which has substantial gain. It was rebuilt by a pro, like origional .  I just felt it did not have....resolution, if thats the right term. Lacking in the "inner" detail i am used to, therefore not taking full advantage of the abilities of the Lascala. maybe too "tube sounding". Perhaps ive just been a solid state man for to long.

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4 hours ago, The Dude said:

Maybe placing your amp on top of your speaker has something to do with the quality, maybe not? I am not an engineer, but this doesn't sound like a good idea with tubes.   I run a Crown D45 in "vertical" by amped configuration.  There is a little bit of noise, however I am running a fairly large horn on top of it. 

Agreed, the amp is up there for audition and while does weigh 85 pounds is heavily isolated. low level listening effects not, as if vibration is the factor, it is not present at this level to any discernable degree. In time, whatever amps i choose, will be mounted to the wall behind. This configuration is just for testing or until i cut the maple to be used for the "amp mantle"

   For others reading who may deem setting "anything" on a Klipsch... your fear is noted, and based on seeing damage to these in the past. as a painter, and certified coating inspector having seen many beat up speakers, i assure you... i have these protected protected protected. This setup is temporary until i build the mantle for whatever amps i choose. "No speaker was harmed in the production of this video " ;)

  

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Just a few random thoughts. If you are looking for better resolution or inner detail, you have to put the amps on the floor. Tubes can and will pickup vibration and smear the image. Talk to Mike Sanders  before you buy the Quicksilvers but they are very good amps and have more inner detail than LaScalas can deliver.  25 watts will drive me out of a small room but you say you are already seeing 25-35 watts so I am a little reluctant to say that is enough for you but the Mini-Monos are stout little amps. Maybe you should look at the Mid-Monos?

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5 minutes ago, wdecho said:

A hard question to answer for me because at different times I like different amps. The differences in most of the higher quality amplifiers becomes subtle with just slight differences. No two sound alike. For example, I recently built a Firstwatt F4 SS amp that many consider neutral sounding being that it is a current only amplifier requiring a preamplifier for voltage gain. I also have a number of different preamplifiers both tube and SS and each and every one sounds different with the F4. For example with my tube SRPP tube amplifier the sound is more like a good tube amplifier with an outstanding soundstage and better vocals. With one of my SS pres the sound is more dynamic and quicker with better bass. Both can and do sound great just different. Why so many amps? Playing with electronics mainly amplifiers and preamplifiers is my retirement hobby. If I had to choose only one amplifier it would probably be one of my tube amps with my LaScala's. 

I can relate...as i have about 20 receivers. Probably more speakers than that. Though the differences in my 3 preamps are a stark contrast, like yourself i also like them each at different times, and for what they do offer, instead of what they do not. Ive heard about the current amps, very interesting. Would like to hear on some day. Nuetral can be good,, if we like our preamps, and of course do have quality source material yes?

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I'm in agreement with previous posters on the very low watts needed to power a set of Klipschs.  Every now and then I will run my Yam CA-2010 in class "A" just to give it some exercise, and the 30wpc is way more than enough to drive my 'Scalas to very painful levels.  Wish you luck on your search!

 

IMG_0146_zpsalyymyiu.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, russ69 said:

Just a few random thoughts. If you are looking for better resolution or inner detail, you have to put the amps on the floor. Tubes can and will pickup vibration and smear the image. Talk to Mike Sanders  before you buy the Quicksilvers but they are very good amps and have more inner detail than LaScalas can deliver.  25 watts will drive me out of a small room but you say you are already seeing 25-35 watts so I am a little reluctant to say that is enough for you but the Mini-Monos are stout little amps. Maybe you should look at the Mid-Monos?

I was also looking at the other mono offerings from QS indeed. Thank you.

  as for the floor, the bass bin on lascala is tied directly to the floor. in a 2 story house, my floor caries vibration like a tuning fork. 

1. the floor vibrates worse than the top of the speaker.

2. like turntable isolation, of which i am quite good at, the amps are well isolated from the lascala.

3  on the floor where vibration is even worse that the tops, i would need MORE isolation than the tops.

4. its only temporary

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16 minutes ago, scalawag said:

I'm in agreement with previous posters on the very low watts needed to power a set of Klipschs.  Every now and then I will run my Yam CA-2010 in class "A" just to give it some exercise, and the 30wpc is way more than enough to drive my 'Scalas to very painful levels.  Wish you luck on your search!

 

IMG_0146_zpsalyymyiu.jpg

 

Shes a beauty. I have a large receiver collection, however no Yammy. Time to have a gander at this integrated amp for sure. Thanks for sharing! 

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The amount of max power needed depends on how dynamic the music you're playing is. A 25 watt amplifier gives you 20dB of headroom over an average 0.25 watt listening level or 30 dB over 25 milliwatts. With today's squashed recordings 20 db seems to be enough. Just my $0.02

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8 minutes ago, babadono said:

The amount of max power needed depends on how dynamic the music you're playing is. A 25 watt amplifier gives you 20dB of headroom over an average 0.25 watt listening level or 30 dB over 25 milliwatts. With today's squashed recordings 20 db seems to be enough. Just my $0.02

True enough with "todays squashed recordings" and in the process of squashing, my inderstanding is that distortion is often either introduced or a byproduct of some process? Clipping things prematurely perhaps?

  I however do not own ny of todays recordings so may not have to worry terribly. All MFSL,Quad, sacd, xrcd, Blue Note, Telarc, Angel, Columbia 6 eye, and other various formats of high res. Though some of these are also terrible, especially the knockoffs. Still yet, nothing seems to be foolproof. (My quality source obsession).

   Thank you for the math you provide there. I will need to research and try and understand what a db essentially does in my room, andhow  variouse voltages obtain these levels. perhaps a db or sound meter of some sort? Measure voltage out at some comfortable level and see exactly how many watts i produce and at what db the room is? use this to calculate amp power requirements ? 

  does this sound logical? Seems doable actually. I have indeed measured the output of many, perhaps i will find a decent sound meter of sorts... great idea, thank you! (Did i run away with that a little? ););)

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New here, I run my LaScalas with a SET/UL amp with 4.8 wpc in Triode and 9 wpc in UL........they sound great!  Never needed a lot of power with these speakers.  Thanks.

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Gosh, I like my Dynaco st 70 so much with the LaScalas that I have bought a VPI classic 1 turntable . So I can play LPs . I am getting rid of the  Adcom 5500 I have been using for 21 years. I do listen "loud"

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